[fed up]

I have a very clever daughter but she wants to be a journalist. In the past I might have thought that was an honourable profession but these days I don't have much respect for them and I wonder whether it's a sensible way to go. She's in Yr 9 and her 'bad' subjects are science 87% and math 86%, compared to 95% for anything of an English/Humanities/Business nature. She wants to drop science ASAP because she thinks she is no good at it, but is prepared to keep maths going because it's a prerequisite to many courses. What should I tell her? Getting no support from dad who thinks she should be able to choose whatever she fancies. At 15, she's mature, but how can she really know? Am I being a bossy boots to try and influence her choices?

[savagegoose]

i know 2 people who studied journalism , both have ok jobs in public service. and a marine biologist, who hasnt been near the water since leaving uni. also a geoligist who works in IT.

i dont think it matters what they study, towards what their end career will be, is what im saying, im sure journalism will help in her furtre careen as a public servant. if she is eager to study and not chat on the web and get in trouble with friends, you should be happy.

hey 85% in science isnt a fail, its an acceptable pass in most uni courses. dont forget after 1st year she can always cross over to a diff degree if she finds it boring.

[sydney3000]

fed up, on 25 August 2010 - 03:23 PM, said:

At 15, she's mature, but how can she really know? Am I being a bossy boots to try and influence her choices?

The human mind has a mind of its own.

[urchin]

sydney3000, on 25 August 2010 - 09:08 PM, said:

The human mind has a mind of its own.

i'll have to agree with sydney.

at 15, i wouldn't take her career plans du jour too much to heart. i underwent about 4 different career choices before ending up in something totally unexpected.

i do wish i had done a dual major with something on the hard science/maths side along with the humanities side though. not that i think i ever would have used it, but simply because its interesting. i had a horrible run of science teachers in the last couple of years of high school that turned me off maths & science. if she is avoiding the math/science stuff because she mistakenly thinks that she's not good at it (but finds it interesting nonetheless) it would be good to give her some parental guidance (i.e., perspective) but otherwise... when i was 15 i wanted to be a fighter pilot despite the fact that i was afraid of heights. go figure.

[Max Carnage]

fed up, on 25 August 2010 - 03:23 PM, said:

I have a very clever daughter but she wants to be a journalist.
<snip>
she's mature, but how can she really know? Am I being a bossy boots to try and influence her choices?

If she thinks she knows what she wants to do at 15 I'd encourage her to pursue that goal. I'm mid-30s and still have no idea what I want to be when I grow up! Never did, never have. I wish I'd known at her age, or even had a goal beyond 'get out of Dodge'.

You might even help by seeing if she can tag around with a genuine journalist from the local rag (or even a state/national paper) for a couple of days? Not later, but soon. At least that will expose her to the fact that for every 1 job a young person thinks exists, there are 13* related jobs that they didn't think of. And maybe turn her off the idea, or maybe really motivate her to keep working towards it.

If you really want her to keep up the science stuff, you could argue that a generalist would make a better journalist... But if she can't motivate herself to do it, then why?





Note: I am not a parent, but have experienced enough mediocre parenting to know what's not good, FWIW.

* Made-up statistic.

[RumpledElf]

Max Carnage, on 25 August 2010 - 10:57 PM, said:

I'm mid-30s and still have no idea what I want to be when I grow up!

LOL I do, but it happens to be something that is inordinately slow and works better when you can afford minions to do the work for you. The pay rate for minions fortunately is extremely low. And most of them in this country are in Queensland. Related? Probably

So I'm doing something else more likely to get cash while the other half beavers away in the corner.

[Max Carnage]

RumpledElf, on 26 August 2010 - 12:06 AM, said:

LOL I do, but it happens to be something that is inordinately slow and works better when you can afford minions to do the work for you.

Wow, a mining magnate!

I do have a plan (I need one because tomorrow I'm meeting the director to finally and officially get made redundant!) but it's not so much something I want to do as it is a case of something I'm good at that pays slightly above average that I could handle doing 40 hours a week for the next 15 to 20 years without it getting in the way of my life too much!

It's not a bad way to be but it would be nice to do something I was really passionate about, hence my advice to fed up above.

[Bernard L. Madoff]

There are some very good TV and Print journos out there (read Time/Newsweek, The Economist, London Times, NY Times, Washington Post, National Geographic,etc; watch 4 Corners, Foreign Correspondent, Dateline etc).

Hell, the world needs good ones to make up for the dross and drivel on 7,9 and 10 and in Murdoch rags.

[Ruffian]

fed up, on 25 August 2010 - 03:23 PM, said:

I have a very clever daughter but she wants to be a journalist. In the past I might have thought that was an honourable profession but these days I don't have much respect for them and I wonder whether it's a sensible way to go. She's in Yr 9 and her 'bad' subjects are science 87% and math 86%, compared to 95% for anything of an English/Humanities/Business nature. She wants to drop science ASAP because she thinks she is no good at it, but is prepared to keep maths going because it's a prerequisite to many courses. What should I tell her? Getting no support from dad who thinks she should be able to choose whatever she fancies. At 15, she's mature, but how can she really know? Am I being a bossy boots to try and influence her choices?

I was very similar at around the same age, smart and good with words... I wanted to write and to change the world...

My parents sent me to work experience at the local paper.

A week of trailing people around and having a crack at writing a couple of articles myself soon changed my mind, and gave me a whole new view of the media. If she is as mature as you say she is, likely she will come to similar conclusions.

I can still remember how disillusioned I was - the very picture of crushed idealistic youth.

I've met a number of journalists since and thank my lucky stars it didn't get a grip on me. With few exceptions I have been very, very unimpressed.

I don't think you are being overbearing - however mature someone is, at 15 they simply don't have any context for their maturity and intellect. You can help try and provide that.



That said, people can rarely be changed in any permanent respect by external force, so be prepared for her to find her own path.

Change comes from within. It's a creaky old cliche, but it's true.

[tux]

Ruffian, on 26 August 2010 - 08:45 AM, said:

That said, people can rarely be changed in any permanent respect by external force, so be prepared for her to find her own path.

Change comes from within. It's a creaky old cliche, but it's true.

Education can bring about change. That transfer of knowledge has the power to shift attitudes.

[Ruffian]

tux, on 26 August 2010 - 10:05 AM, said:

Education can bring about change. That transfer of knowledge has the power to shift attitudes.

Yes, of course. But people have to be receptive to the lesson - the change starts from within, the willingness to learn.

[staringclown]

If you want to discourage her from taking the journalism path then it's probably not the best strategy to be against the whole idea completely up front. It may make the choice more attractive to her. Best to help her get an understanding of what the job entails. You can throw in a few salient facts along the way like journalists are regarded by society as marginally more popular than used car salesmen and make her watch "media watch". That may however make her more determined as she claims that she can only improve the state of journalism. She may be right.

Having said that I think that if she is a glass half empty sort then journalism would destroy her. If she is a glass half full type then she will become a glass half empty type within very few years. We need more good journalists as TP says. Good investigative journalism is a keystone of a healthy democracy. She sounds bright which is encouraging. It's an interesting career certainly and they are great at dinner parties journalists. Tell her to keep up science as not enough people understand it (especially journalists). If she wants an edge as a journalist then science will become increasingly important. It also provides a logical basis for critical thought. Essential for good journalism but as a general talent it will be increasingly handy. Facts are most important for good journalism too. Maths it goes without saying is important for _everything_. Keep the options open for as long as possible would be my advice. I can't believe you can limit your options from yr 9. I wanted to become a lighthouse keeper. The career manual said the qualifications were that you were 40 years old, married and handy with mechanics. Ever since I've just been confused.

If you want to give her a feel for it then she can start now. Get her to write some pieces and get them published on line. Plenty of news outlets will publish a well written article. A youth perspective is flavour of the month.

[Bernard L. Madoff]

staringclown, on 26 August 2010 - 11:47 AM, said:

Good investigative journalism is a keystone of a healthy democracy. She sounds bright which is encouraging. It's an interesting career certainly and they are great at dinner parties journalists. Tell her to keep up science as not enough people understand it (especially journalists). If she wants an edge as a journalist then science will become increasingly important. It also provides a logical basis for critical thought. Essential for good journalism but as a general talent it will be increasingly handy. Facts are most important for good journalism too. Maths it goes without saying is important for _everything_. Keep the options open for as long as possible would be my advice. I can't believe you can limit your options from yr 9.

All you said mate +1

But...

Quote

We need more good journalists as TP says.

...is the cornerstone of democracy and justice. From Mai Lai massacre, Watergate, the location of Serbian war criminals, Enron etc etc.

If Journalism becomes the doyen of idiots and spruikers we are cactus. Its Idiocracy.

An old friend in Brisbane has a child graduate OP1, Medicine? Law? No Journalism.

Uncovering war crimes or corruption or fraud at the highest levels does not tie in to reporting a local milk bar robbery for the simple reason is to reach that equivalent you'd have to uncover the perpetrators, do you want to to that (without moving burbs)? The difference between a news rerporter/documenter and investigative journalist.

[staringclown]

Bernard L. Madoff, on 26 August 2010 - 12:07 PM, said:

All you said mate +1

But...

...is the cornerstone of democracy and justice. From Mai Lai massacre, Watergate, the location of Serbian war criminals, Enron etc etc.

If Journalism becomes the doyen of idiots and spruikers we are cactus. Its Idiocracy.

An old friend in Brisbane has a child graduate OP1, Medicine? Law? No Journalism.

Uncovering war crimes or corruption or fraud at the highest levels does not tie in to reporting a local milk bar robbery for the simple reason is to reach that equivalent you'd have to uncover the perpetrators, do you want to to that (without moving burbs)? The difference between a news rerporter/documenter and investigative journalist.

I'm assuming OP1 == the old 990 tertiary entry score. But yes you can do a lot more as a good journalist. Power is involved at least to sway opinion. For perceived good or bad. Journalists can and need to be whistleblowers. This unfortunately puts them in the brave category. Hence the current crop of today-tonight impersonators. It comes down to the integrity of the individual.

BTW fed up - what would be your preferred choice of profession?

[Bernard L. Madoff]

Australia.
http://en.wikipedia..../Walkley_Awards

Winners:
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Gold_Walkley

USA.
http://en.wikipedia....Pullitzer_Prize

Winners:
http://en.wikipedia....tory_Journalism

Winners (note 1973 amonngst others)
http://en.wikipedia...._Public_Service

There are lot worse things to be in life than a journo at say 4 Corners. They get things done and open eyes.

[fed up]

I've really got no problem with journalism per se, it's just that I worry about whether you can really practice it properly these days. I wonder whether the rubbish we have to read results from poor quality journalism or from the focus of the businesses for whom they work. I suspect the latter. How disappointing to invest your time in a career only to find that you can't actually perform it in any meaningful way.

I don't have any particular desire for her to work in one profession or another but I would like her to keep science going because I think it will become more important in the future. Unfortunately there is so much focus on the score for university that kids are dropping out of a generalist education to concentrate on subjects that they think might earn them a higher overall score. Of course this is probably a sensible approach for score maximisation but it can involve a narrow path being chosen quite early.

I haven't mentioned by concerns about journalism at all, but I have tried to encourage her to think about a combined degree and also to keep the science option open in these last few years at school. The very mention of science makes her eyes glaze over so I try not bang on too much.

So good suggestions here on submitting some writing to various publications and perhaps also pursuing the work experience option.