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"I'm not doing it to make money".
Partner won't let it happen but seriously, its a psychological affliction.
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Its a disease
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#1
Bernard L. Madoff 
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:53 AM
Close family member in town from Perth. Just sold a property for a massive profit and looking for an IP in QLD to relocate to. I proved that prices were coming down, vacancies up and yields falling and suggested that a TD at >6% maybe a better idea until we see what the market does. Response...
"I'm not doing it to make money".
Partner won't let it happen but seriously, its a psychological affliction.
"I'm not doing it to make money".
Partner won't let it happen but seriously, its a psychological affliction.
#2
tom
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:10 AM
Bernard L. Madoff, on 01 September 2010 - 07:53 AM, said:
"I'm not doing it to make money".
I know. You would laugh if it was not so sad. It is like having a second house is rather like the Hindu practise of owning a shrine / temple. Everyone has to strive to have one and there is some other factor in play other than money. At least they can put their shrines in the back yard...
#3
Bernard L. Madoff
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:24 AM
I know. I didn't realise how bad it is.
That massive gain Perth in 2006 has them thinking they are Donald Trumps. Melbournites, Sydneysiders and SE Queenlanders holidaying here are the same, the heady days will be back soon.
"Where's the money coming from if the average wage earner is already maxed out?" "There is a shortage (quoting ACA/TT/Murdoch cash for comment".
[showing pop to houses at lows and similar to USA and not accouning for unsold land releases] "Its different here, we have low unemployment".
[show that enemployment was low in Ireland, USA, Spain and UK]"We have coal and Iron Ore exports".
[show that Rockhampton and Perth prices are rolling off the top] "That is interesting but we have a shortage"....
That massive gain Perth in 2006 has them thinking they are Donald Trumps. Melbournites, Sydneysiders and SE Queenlanders holidaying here are the same, the heady days will be back soon.
"Where's the money coming from if the average wage earner is already maxed out?" "There is a shortage (quoting ACA/TT/Murdoch cash for comment".
[showing pop to houses at lows and similar to USA and not accouning for unsold land releases] "Its different here, we have low unemployment".
[show that enemployment was low in Ireland, USA, Spain and UK]"We have coal and Iron Ore exports".
[show that Rockhampton and Perth prices are rolling off the top] "That is interesting but we have a shortage"....
Quote
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, a hole.
Then fix it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then fix it, dear Henry, dear Henry, fix it.
With what shall I fix it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I fix it, dear Liza, with what?
With a straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With a straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, a straw.
The straw is too long, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The straw is too long, dear Liza, too long,
Then cut it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then cut it, dear Henry, dear Henry, cut it.
With what shall I cut it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I cut it, dear Liza, with what?
With an ax, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With an ax, dear Henry, dear Henry, an ax.
The ax is too dull, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The ax is too dull, dear Liza, too dull.
Then sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, sharpen it.
With what shall I sharpen it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I sharpen it, dear Liza, with what?
With a stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With a stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, a stone.
The stone is too dry, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The stone is too dry, dear Liza, too dry.
Then wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, wet it.
With what shall I wet it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I wet, dear Liza, with what?
With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, water.
In what shall I carry it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
In what shall I carry it, dear Liza, in what?
In a bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
In a bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, bucket.
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, a hole..
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, a hole.
Then fix it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then fix it, dear Henry, dear Henry, fix it.
With what shall I fix it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I fix it, dear Liza, with what?
With a straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With a straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, a straw.
The straw is too long, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The straw is too long, dear Liza, too long,
Then cut it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then cut it, dear Henry, dear Henry, cut it.
With what shall I cut it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I cut it, dear Liza, with what?
With an ax, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With an ax, dear Henry, dear Henry, an ax.
The ax is too dull, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The ax is too dull, dear Liza, too dull.
Then sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, sharpen it.
With what shall I sharpen it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I sharpen it, dear Liza, with what?
With a stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With a stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, a stone.
The stone is too dry, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The stone is too dry, dear Liza, too dry.
Then wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, wet it.
With what shall I wet it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I wet, dear Liza, with what?
With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With water, dear Henry, dear Henry, water.
In what shall I carry it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
In what shall I carry it, dear Liza, in what?
In a bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
In a bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, bucket.
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, a hole..
#4
yarra
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:29 AM
Bernard L. Madoff, on 01 September 2010 - 08:24 AM, said:
I know. I didn't realise how bad it is.
That massive gain Perth in 2006 has them thinking they are Donald Trumps. Melbournites, Sydneysiders and SE Queenlanders holidaying here are the same, the heady days will be back soon.
"Where's the money coming from if the average wage earner is already maxed out?" "There is a shortage (quoting ACA/TT/Murdoch cash for comment".
[showing pop to houses at lows and similar to USA and not accouning for unsold land releases] "Its different here, we have low unemployment".
[show that enemployment was low in Ireland, USA, Spain and UK]"We have coal and Iron Ore exports".
[show that Rockhampton and Perth prices are rolling off the top] "That is interesting but we have a shortage"....
That massive gain Perth in 2006 has them thinking they are Donald Trumps. Melbournites, Sydneysiders and SE Queenlanders holidaying here are the same, the heady days will be back soon.
"Where's the money coming from if the average wage earner is already maxed out?" "There is a shortage (quoting ACA/TT/Murdoch cash for comment".
[showing pop to houses at lows and similar to USA and not accouning for unsold land releases] "Its different here, we have low unemployment".
[show that enemployment was low in Ireland, USA, Spain and UK]"We have coal and Iron Ore exports".
[show that Rockhampton and Perth prices are rolling off the top] "That is interesting but we have a shortage"....
You can lead a horse to water...........
It is almost like a cult.
#5
tom
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:37 AM
yarra, on 01 September 2010 - 08:29 AM, said:
It is almost like a cult.
You only have to look at the choice of words to know this. When its on the up, its boom etc. When its coming off its "stabilise" etc I am looking forward to when the likes of Joye say: "2011 was a year of consolidation for the housing market where we saw in the first 9 months a 20% decline the latter 3 months we are starting to see a resurgence in buying activity".
If it was stock market 12 month 20% dive. Kohler wrapping up the year would say: "well this year has not been pretty, but you know markets do go up and they go down" He would probably even say it with a little smirk, like when on Sundays after a bad week he says "what a week!" Anyway he would show a few charts of past depressions against current market movement etc" to show us what could have been.
Can you imagine Joye putting up a chart of the late 19th century Vic land bubble in 12-18 months time to compare it to now, assuming we had a 20% fall? Not on your life. Residential housing in this country really is only about perception now not substance. This act alone could cause anything to happen. It would be like that Pepsi Max ad, Australians would be out on their roller skates in tutus in no time.
#6
Bernard L. Madoff
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:13 AM
tom, on 01 September 2010 - 08:37 AM, said:
You only have to look at the choice of words to know this. When its on the up, its boom etc. When its coming off its "stabilise" etc I am looking forward to when the likes of Joye say: "2011 was a year of consolidation for the housing market where we saw in the first 9 months a 20% decline the latter 3 months we are starting to see a resurgence in buying activity".
If it was stock market 12 month 20% dive. Kohler wrapping up the year would say: "well this year has not been pretty, but you know markets do go up and they go down" He would probably even say it with a little smirk, like when on Sundays after a bad week he says "what a week!" Anyway he would show a few charts of past depressions against current market movement etc" to show us what could have been.
Can you imagine Joye putting up a chart of the late 19th century Vic land bubble in 12-18 months time to compare it to now, assuming we had a 20% fall? Not on your life. Residential housing in this country really is only about perception now not substance. This act alone could cause anything to happen. It would be like that Pepsi Max ad, Australians would be out on their roller skates in tutus in no time.
If it was stock market 12 month 20% dive. Kohler wrapping up the year would say: "well this year has not been pretty, but you know markets do go up and they go down" He would probably even say it with a little smirk, like when on Sundays after a bad week he says "what a week!" Anyway he would show a few charts of past depressions against current market movement etc" to show us what could have been.
Can you imagine Joye putting up a chart of the late 19th century Vic land bubble in 12-18 months time to compare it to now, assuming we had a 20% fall? Not on your life. Residential housing in this country really is only about perception now not substance. This act alone could cause anything to happen. It would be like that Pepsi Max ad, Australians would be out on their roller skates in tutus in no time.
Spot on mate. it really is an affliction.
If only I can hit all their emails with "where is the money coming from and how will they repay it?"
Then they'll reply with the "shortage" and "The West Australian said (insert A Current Affair/Today Tonight) the population will double in 5mins/1year/5years etc".
We'll ignore the vast tracts of unsold land estates in Perth.
We are in deep do do with this mentality.
#7
yarra
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:18 AM
Bernard L. Madoff, on 01 September 2010 - 09:13 AM, said:
We are in deep do do with this mentality.
They will awaken soon enough......like they always do with every bubble. Remember the .com bubble. It didn't matter that these companies were not making money.......
The problem is, that when they do awaken from their slumber, they will say "why didn't the government warn me ?".......blaming everybody else but themselves.
#8
Bernard L. Madoff
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:36 AM
yarra, on 01 September 2010 - 09:18 AM, said:
They will awaken soon enough......like they always do with every bubble. Remember the .com bubble. It didn't matter that these companies were not making money.......
The problem is, that when they do awaken from their slumber, they will say "why didn't the government warn me ?".......blaming everybody else but themselves.
The problem is, that when they do awaken from their slumber, they will say "why didn't the government warn me ?".......blaming everybody else but themselves.
I remember being a Tower Supervisor in April 2000 and one of the crew advising me to sell my IP and buy Sausage Software on my statement the market will tank soon.
7:30 report a few weeks later 17/4/2000 (note the pundits like Kohler present).
Quote
MAXINE McKEW: Well, everybody said it was going to be a bad day and it was. Particularly bad if you are the holder of media, telco or high-tech stocks.
The All Ordinaries at one point today lost 7 per cent of its value to end the day 5.7 per cent down, a loss of nearly $40 billion. It was much worse in Japan.
A 7 per cent drop in equities and it was a similar story around the region. But how to characterise what's happening?
The end of irrational exuberance or the start of something much worse? That's the question this evening as investors and analysts wait to see the sentiment when Wall Street opens in a few hours for this week of pre-Easter trading.
In a moment we'll cross to London for the latest news on morning trading but for his round-up of reaction here's business and economics editor Alan Kohler.
ALAN KOHLER: It was perhaps the most anticipated, least surprising share market correction in history, but that didn't stop a lot of people getting hurt.
JOHN MARKOVINA, INVESTOR: I borrowed $56 grand on Telstra 2 at $5.90.
They're currently worth $4.14. So, it's about $18,000 losing position. Um, I fear that I'm going to have to have a margin call again, but basically I'm going to have to come up with that $17,000 difference.
I'll be getting another job, another part-time job and putting everything I have into this. Cutting down on smokes, cutting down on everything. I'm hoping to get it over with by the end of the year.
ALAN KOHLER: John's just one of thousands who borrowed money to invest in shares, especially Telstra, and are now staring at big losses.
The other big losers from the stock market rout are those with Internet companies who need to raise more money from the stock market.
That source of cash just dried up. And it was an especially bad idea to float today.
The All Ordinaries at one point today lost 7 per cent of its value to end the day 5.7 per cent down, a loss of nearly $40 billion. It was much worse in Japan.
A 7 per cent drop in equities and it was a similar story around the region. But how to characterise what's happening?
The end of irrational exuberance or the start of something much worse? That's the question this evening as investors and analysts wait to see the sentiment when Wall Street opens in a few hours for this week of pre-Easter trading.
In a moment we'll cross to London for the latest news on morning trading but for his round-up of reaction here's business and economics editor Alan Kohler.
ALAN KOHLER: It was perhaps the most anticipated, least surprising share market correction in history, but that didn't stop a lot of people getting hurt.
JOHN MARKOVINA, INVESTOR: I borrowed $56 grand on Telstra 2 at $5.90.
They're currently worth $4.14. So, it's about $18,000 losing position. Um, I fear that I'm going to have to have a margin call again, but basically I'm going to have to come up with that $17,000 difference.
I'll be getting another job, another part-time job and putting everything I have into this. Cutting down on smokes, cutting down on everything. I'm hoping to get it over with by the end of the year.
ALAN KOHLER: John's just one of thousands who borrowed money to invest in shares, especially Telstra, and are now staring at big losses.
The other big losers from the stock market rout are those with Internet companies who need to raise more money from the stock market.
That source of cash just dried up. And it was an especially bad idea to float today.
Quote
ALAN KOHLER: It's now lunch-time and things have quietened considerably.
In fact, the market's now trying to go higher.
Sausage Software have doubled from this morning's opening and the All Ordinaries is down 5 per cent, back from its 7 per cent slump at the start.
But at around $3 Sausage Software is still a long way from its peak of $8.20 and cash will now be hard to get from the market.
So it's just as well the company lined up Telstra as a sugar daddy before the crash came.
As a result, its chief Wayne Bos was upbeat this afternoon.
WAYNE BOS, SAUSAGE SOFTWARE: I feel pretty good.
I'm just watching it -- in fact, I haven't watched it at all, I'm aware of it.
In fact, the market's now trying to go higher.
Sausage Software have doubled from this morning's opening and the All Ordinaries is down 5 per cent, back from its 7 per cent slump at the start.
But at around $3 Sausage Software is still a long way from its peak of $8.20 and cash will now be hard to get from the market.
So it's just as well the company lined up Telstra as a sugar daddy before the crash came.
As a result, its chief Wayne Bos was upbeat this afternoon.
WAYNE BOS, SAUSAGE SOFTWARE: I feel pretty good.
I'm just watching it -- in fact, I haven't watched it at all, I'm aware of it.
http://www.abc.net.a...ies/s119475.htm
That transcript is a great read.
#9
Max Carnage
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:40 AM
Sorry to hear it Bernie! Do you get the feeling that pointing to weaknesses in their plan will only cement it? That has been my experience...
It's worse than most disease, because most diseases can be cured. This mania only stops when the host is destroyed.
It's worse than most disease, because most diseases can be cured. This mania only stops when the host is destroyed.
#10
Bernard L. Madoff
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:51 PM
Max Carnage, on 01 September 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:
Sorry to hear it Bernie! Do you get the feeling that pointing to weaknesses in their plan will only cement it? That has been my experience...
It's worse than most disease, because most diseases can be cured. This mania only stops when the host is destroyed.
It's worse than most disease, because most diseases can be cured. This mania only stops when the host is destroyed.
They just call me the doomsayer. A bit sad, since I just consider myself a realist.
The data from USA, UK, Ireland gets some agitation.
#12
Bernard L. Madoff
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 01:46 PM
hamish, on 01 September 2010 - 01:05 PM, said:
Sounds almost like a gambling addiction. They've had a big win early on, and have falsely attributed it to skill rather than dumb luck, so are now doubling up.
Yep. Unfortunately the instant wealth expectation from property is mainstream. This is just a blip.
Interesting times.
#13
zaph
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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:48 PM
Bernard L. Madoff, on 01 September 2010 - 07:53 AM, said:
Close family member in town from Perth. Just sold a property for a massive profit and looking for an IP in QLD to relocate to. I proved that prices were coming down, vacancies up and yields falling and suggested that a TD at >6% maybe a better idea until we see what the market does. Response...
"I'm not doing it to make money".
Partner won't let it happen but seriously, its a psychological affliction.
"I'm not doing it to make money".
Partner won't let it happen but seriously, its a psychological affliction.
why don't you sell them your place and rent it back?
since they're into losing money make sure you sell at an over inflated price and rent at under-market.
#14
Bernard L. Madoff
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Posted 02 September 2010 - 04:05 AM
zaph, on 01 September 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:
why don't you sell them your place and rent it back?
since they're into losing money make sure you sell at an over inflated price and rent at under-market.
since they're into losing money make sure you sell at an over inflated price and rent at under-market.
Market rent will be more than my mortgage payments.
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