[Max Carnage]

Okay, I need help and google is not helping.

I have a problem where I get to my financial/social crash. My protagonist is in hiding with his two friends. I have a supporting character, a sympathetic policeman whose viewpoint I follow for a bit. He helps tell the story of some of the more gruesome parts of the ensuing disorder, as well as the banking collapse (because he's taken a punt on the kid's word and placed some shorts).

The remainder of the chapter is around 2000 words of awkward exposition. It doesn't fit. The rest of my story is action or dialogue driven. It's a real information dump. But I can't see how else to do it. I need to convey a whole lot of information, and none of my characters is involved or direct witness to it (apart from the involvement of the policeman I mentioned).

Any ideas for dealing with this?

I can leave it as a dump and focus my energy on making it interesting to read.
I can try to rework it into a series of radio and internet stories interspersed with minor action and dialogue from my characters, and small pieces of narrative exposition.
I can have one of my characters relate it to the others.
I can skip it and have my characters reveal what they know of it later (I began with this and it seemed to jar, and it was weird to have my characters knowing and reacting to things not previously revealed).
Other suggestions?

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 05 December 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Okay, I need help and google is not helping.

I have a problem where I get to my financial/social crash. My protagonist is in hiding with his two friends. I have a supporting character, a sympathetic policeman whose viewpoint I follow for a bit. He helps tell the story of some of the more gruesome parts of the ensuing disorder, as well as the banking collapse (because he's taken a punt on the kid's word and placed some shorts).

The remainder of the chapter is around 2000 words of awkward exposition. It doesn't fit. The rest of my story is action or dialogue driven. It's a real information dump. But I can't see how else to do it. I need to convey a whole lot of information, and none of my characters is involved or direct witness to it (apart from the involvement of the policeman I mentioned).

Any ideas for dealing with this?

I can leave it as a dump and focus my energy on making it interesting to read.
I can try to rework it into a series of radio and internet stories interspersed with minor action and dialogue from my characters, and small pieces of narrative exposition.
I can have one of my characters relate it to the others.
I can skip it and have my characters reveal what they know of it later (I began with this and it seemed to jar, and it was weird to have my characters knowing and reacting to things not previously revealed).
Other suggestions?

Does the reader have to know it as fact or opinion Max?

If the policeman character tells what he knows and the main character fills in the blanks, with things like, "My god, this would mean..." and "I knew it, it was this.... all along." and so on you could move it away from straight exposition. If the main character has been described as in the know enough, the reader should be relating to that POV and take it as gospel for the world of the novel.

Stretch it out more than 2000 words. Give it another chase scene or something to ramp up the tension of the conversation.

Watch the first Terminator film, you know that bit where Reece is describing cyborgs and the future world to Sarah Connor as Arnie is trying to kill them - that is well delivered exposition.

If there is a particularly deep, hard to say bit of exposition, that someone doesn't want to divulge, get them laid. Men confuse pillow talk with confessing all the time, so it is perfectly believable.

If it has to be known as fact, you might want to go the way of watching news footage or reading a paper or something. But late in a story that can be off putting and slow down the pace, unless the reason for what is happening in the world of the novel has been given enough mystery and tension so that it has become as important to the reader as a character.

[ummester]

I have decided to set the first part of my horror trilogy 'Suburban Zombies' in the 80s. Am starting in the middle to see if I can make the change from humorous to disturbed work. There has to be something humorous about decapitating mullets retrospectively:)

[Max Carnage]

ummester, on 05 December 2010 - 09:23 AM, said:

Does the...
<snip>
...as a character.

Thanks Ummester. This was useful.

I realised that the reason I wanted to blat it all out was because I was trying to leap from pre-crisis to post, bridging the gap with the wordy patch. Your idea of a chase scene provided the answer - I need to force my characters into action. A high-action patch coinciding with the changes going on outside their immediate surrounds.

As I think it through, I can see how one of the options might make for a more exciting story.

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 05 December 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

Thanks Ummester. This was useful.

I realised that the reason I wanted to blat it all out was because I was trying to leap from pre-crisis to post, bridging the gap with the wordy patch. Your idea of a chase scene provided the answer - I need to force my characters into action. A high-action patch coinciding with the changes going on outside their immediate surrounds.

As I think it through, I can see how one of the options might make for a more exciting story.

Hey, no worries - I guess that is what a thread like this is for, trying to progress our writing.

If the changes occur during the scene, you could deliver some exposition through description of action also. If say the evil, conspiratorial government is taking action steps the populace, the main characters can witness and have to avoid it.

Have you seen Children of Men? The premise of that film always annoyed me, I always found the concept of human females going infertile in less than a generation absurd. That said, the action scene near the very end is a perfect example of main characters being caught up in larger than life government action and still having their own agenda. Similar to the scene in War of the Worlds, where our protagonist is caught in the fleeing masses of the London populace and getting tidbits of information from the crowd to paint a more complete picture of the invasion.

[ummester]

So I finished the first story in SK's Full Dark, No Stars Max and I recon it is the best he has written in ages. I am about a third of the way through the second story Big Driver and it is off to a good start.

For adult supernatural horror to be horrific I think it has to be interlaced with true human horror. Things like hatred, murder, rape, loss of loved ones and dark repressed memories - these are things that can generate a feeling of hopelessness and create a more tangible connection with any fantastical element IMO.

Oh, I have been re-editing my NaNo horror novella over and over, so for those who want to read and haven't started yet, here is the most up to date version, in rtf and htm which should work on electronic readers.

 Desecrated Desires.rtf (341.18K)
Number of downloads: 2

 Desecrated Desires.htm (848.24K)
Number of downloads: 5

[staringclown]

Anyone heard of this project before.

The mongoliad.

Neal Stephenson and authentic sword fighting so I thought at least you'd like it tor.

[tor]

staringclown, on 04 February 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

Anyone heard of this project before.

The mongoliad.

Neal Stephenson and authentic sword fighting so I thought at least you'd like it tor.

Yeah I saw it recently when doing a check for new books by authors. I don't have the time available to commit to something like that just at the moment though.

Neal has always had a thing about swords I think, he has had them in all of his fiction from memory. The only one where it was a casual statement was Zodiac where the protagonist leaves a girl with her flatmate and the flatmates boyfriend is coming over so he figures they will be safe as he does some kind of martial art involving swords.

He even wrote an apology for the scene in the baroque cycle where the japanese jesuit fights off rapier wielding people with a katana. He makes a reasonable argument for it being successful.

[staringclown]

tor, on 04 February 2011 - 11:59 PM, said:

Yeah I saw it recently when doing a check for new books by authors. I don't have the time available to commit to something like that just at the moment though.

Neal has always had a thing about swords I think, he has had them in all of his fiction from memory. The only one where it was a casual statement was Zodiac where the protagonist leaves a girl with her flatmate and the flatmates boyfriend is coming over so he figures they will be safe as he does some kind of martial art involving swords.

He even wrote an apology for the scene in the baroque cycle where the japanese jesuit fights off rapier wielding people with a katana. He makes a reasonable argument for it being successful.

I've signed up for 6 months of content. I'll see how it goes. It would be cool on the resume though. Collaboration with Neal Stephenson

[ponder]

Those who gave NaNoWriMo a shot last year (Max? Urchin? Ummester?) and even those who were interested, but failed to commit (myself) might like to take a look at Script Frenzy.

[ummester]

I got an email about that.

Can see myself pumping out a script in a month but a graphic novel!?

Even with 3d apps to help a graphic novel in a month seems impossible.

Have to get back into writing, just too many things going on ATM.

Been thinking about a character who can read other peoples thoughts.

[Max Carnage]

ummester, on 11 March 2011 - 01:10 AM, said:

Been thinking about a character who can read other peoples thoughts.

Nice. I've got a kid in a story I've been pudding about in who does similar. Not in a supernatural sense, he's just super-intuitive.

I have to admit looking forward to this:

Quote

Jake Epping is a thirty-five-year-old high school English teacher in Lisbon Falls, Maine, who makes extra money teaching adults in the GED program. He receives an essay from one of the students—a gruesome, harrowing first person story about the night 50 years ago when Harry Dunning’s father came home and killed his mother, his sister, and his brother with a hammer. Harry escaped with a smashed leg, as evidenced by his crooked walk.

Not much later, Jake’s friend Al, who runs the local diner, divulges a secret: his storeroom is a portal to 1958. He enlists Jake on an insane—and insanely possible—mission to try to prevent the Kennedy assassination. So begins Jake’s new life as George Amberson and his new world of Elvis and JFK, of big American cars and sock hops, of a troubled loner named Lee Harvey Oswald and a beautiful high school librarian named Sadie Dunhill, who becomes the love of Jake’s life—a life that transgresses all the normal rules of time.

http://www.stephenki...3/announcement/

I've recently finished Savage Season by Joe R. Lansdale, on a suggestion from Chuck Wendig (http://terribleminds.com/ramble/). I enjoyed it a heck of a lot, and I'm assured the series gets even better. Lansdale's writing in the violent scenes is particularly clever. I must re-read some to figure out how he did it, but the effect left me reading with one eye, and that one squeezed tight, almost shut. As though I could somehow keep reading yet look away from the icky bits.

[savagegoose]

u could have a character meet someone wo recaunts the info thru dialogue, maybe while digging him out of under a ruin.
so there is action and constant reaffirmation of the location while you go thru the odious task of revealing plot thru dialogue

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 03 July 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:

Nice. I've got a kid in a story I've been pudding about in who does similar. Not in a supernatural sense, he's just super-intuitive.

I was thinking more a sci-fi, supernatural sense. This was a while back though. I was sitting in a shopping mall, eating some stuff and looking at people - thinking how strange it would be if they could tell what I was thinking about them.

Then I thought, that if you could read thoughts in a crowded place, how would you separate them and what would most people be thinking? I concluded that most people would think of themselves most of the time - am I too fat, skinny, ugly, dumb - whatever. But some thoughts might stand out like beacons if they are about others - either positive or negative.

So I thought about generating a serial killer type plot where the killer is acting on the notion that he can read the thoughts of evil, criminal types. Could set up for a twist upon twist ending where the reader starts to wonder if he can actually read thoughts or not.

I wanted to write a horror story about a zombie killer once where it turned out the victims weren't actually zombies but the killer was just a nutbag - but i couldn't work out how to plot it without making it obvious that the zombies were just normal people and how the killer could get away with it for so long. The thoughts idea allows me to work a similar idea without worrying about the humanity of the victims and still paint the main character as a hero initially.

But I haven't done much writing for a while - promotions tend to be busy, initially.

[ummester]

Re SKs new book - he loves going back to his youth, doesn't he? Can't write a modern hero, it seems - then again, what is heroic in these times? He also seems to be getting a bit political of late.

I like the idea of time vs time travel though. We all travel forward through time in some way and can our past experiences haunt us in any physical sense (stuff like that). Also, I like the idea of using time in a novel to make social statements about what things may have lost their way now. Political correctness, for example.

[wim]

ummester, on 06 July 2011 - 04:20 AM, said:

I was thinking more a sci-fi, supernatural sense. This was a while back though. I was sitting in a shopping mall, eating some stuff and looking at people - thinking how strange it would be if they could tell what I was thinking about them.

Then I thought, that if you could read thoughts in a crowded place, how would you separate them and what would most people be thinking? I concluded that most people would think of themselves most of the time - am I too fat, skinny, ugly, dumb - whatever. But some thoughts might stand out like beacons if they are about others - either positive or negative.

So I thought about generating a serial killer type plot where the killer is acting on the notion that he can read the thoughts of evil, criminal types. Could set up for a twist upon twist ending where the reader starts to wonder if he can actually read thoughts or not.

I wanted to write a horror story about a zombie killer once where it turned out the victims weren't actually zombies but the killer was just a nutbag - but i couldn't work out how to plot it without making it obvious that the zombies were just normal people and how the killer could get away with it for so long. The thoughts idea allows me to work a similar idea without worrying about the humanity of the victims and still paint the main character as a hero initially.

But I haven't done much writing for a while - promotions tend to be busy, initially.

I like the idea. As an inspiration you can try this movie. I haven't seen it for a while but I remember a train scene which was haunting. They looked at the passengers and it was - I need to remember eggs; Looking forward to playing tennis; hope my mum gets over cancer. They had a good mix of everyday thoughts and depth.

Quote

Wings of Desire is a 1987 German romantic fantasy film directed by Wim Wenders. Its original German title is Der Himmel über Berlin, which can be translated as The Heavens over Berlin. The film is about invisible, immortal angels who populate Berlin and listen to the thoughts of humans. One of them, played by Bruno Ganz, falls in love with a trapeze artist and chooses to become human. It is shot in both black-and-white and colour, with the former being used to represent the world as experienced by the angels.

[Max Carnage]

ummester, on 06 July 2011 - 04:20 AM, said:

I wanted to write a horror story about a zombie killer once where it turned out the victims weren't actually zombies but the killer was just a nutbag - but i couldn't work out how to plot it without making it obvious that the zombies were just normal people and how the killer could get away with it for so long. The thoughts idea allows me to work a similar idea without worrying about the humanity of the victims and still paint the main character as a hero initially.

This seems so obvious that it should be a fairly common plot. But I haven't read it once. Good idea.

What are you folks reading?

[staringclown]

Max Carnage, on 08 July 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:

This seems so obvious that it should be a fairly common plot. But I haven't read it once. Good idea.

What are you folks reading?

I'm reading what I always read. Non-fiction. But I've had the thought that the first settlement in sydney is an untapped bonanza for creative writing. You've got Manning Clark and Robert Hughes to compete with. And Hughes book read like NF anyway. Not enough "real people" interpretations being woven into the background of really early sydney. I mean there's even the possibility of a series and loads of tax deductible travel across this wide brown land researching the subject.

At the risk of boring the humble reader I'll repost a link to the musings of Watkin Tench. Hear me out. It really is a cracking story. Think underbelly (soon to recount the twenties and thirties "razor gang" tales), the true history of the kelly gang and gallipoli books. The current ancestry dot com fad and obsession with lineage. As a bonus you can use every base human emotion as it's a frontier tale. Starvation, lust (the arrival of the second fleet), race, the arrival of modernity. It's a rich vein.