[ummester]

urchin, on 31 October 2010 - 10:04 AM, said:

endings seem to be the achilles heel of writers...

Endings suck. They are so hard to get right.

There's a saying about writing that goes something like 'your first chapter sells your current book, your last chapter sells your next book'.

Hey urchin, are you signed up on Nanoo nanoo writers or whatever it is. What's your username if so and I'll track your writing as a buddy.

Same with you Max, we can read each others stuff when we get stuck.

I just buddied some Californian chick who sent me an email - she is writing some romance piece, from the look of her synopsis.

[Max Carnage]

ummester, on 31 October 2010 - 12:12 PM, said:

Same with you Max, we can read each others stuff when we get stuck.

Ooooh.... nup. Nobody is reading this - except maybe my wife over my shoulder occasionally - until I've at least had a chance to edit out the really cringe-worthy stuff. March is the official Nanowrimo Editing Month. I just need to get it done. Afterwards will come a bit of reflection on strengths (ha!), weaknesses, and whether this is something I want to do more of. If it is, I'll aim to learn to write well. Otherwise it's just a short trip down Self-discovery Close.

Here's me:
http://www.nanowrimo...eng/user/651326
674/50,000 this morning, and even that took nearly as long as my 5km run. I have to learn not to edit as I go...

I'm already realising just how few 50k words is, when it comes to fitting in an epic tale. Oh well, I shouldn't run short of ideas!

Is it okay for teenagers to say "f*ck" a lot? It's absolutely gratuitous on their behalf, but true to my characters. I guess they can always be wound back later or removed for a 'young adult' audience?

The NaNoWriMo servers are crippled this morning. You'd think with a quarter of a million dollars in donations they could afford decent hosting.

[tor]

Max Carnage, on 31 October 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

...Is it okay for teenagers to say "f*ck" a lot? It's absolutely gratuitous on their behalf, but true to my characters. I guess they can always be wound back later or removed for a 'young adult' audience?

Safer than having them use current slang, that dates so fast and so badly. f*ck is here to stay baby!

[Max Carnage]

urchin, on 31 October 2010 - 10:04 AM, said:

endings seem to be the achilles heel of writers...

Ugh, I'm not looking forward to this. I've half a mind to take one of my long days early on, a weekend or holiday, to just work on the ending.



I'm not sure whether I'm more scared of trying to resolve the main story or of the post-resolution last words.

Ummester, do you write straight through or...?

[urchin]

I have signed up - i'm here: http://www.nanowrimo...eng/user/726062

like max, however, i'm not keen to have my stuff read in progress. first drafts and last drafts typically have very little in common (at least with me)

i've got a vague idea about how the first couple of paragraphs will go but beyond that its all a mystery to me. it'll be an adventure. if i make it to an ending, so much the better but i'll be happy to just get through the first ten pages or so with some degree of coherency.

the nice thing about the 1 month time limit, however, is that you don't fuss too much in the early stages. the object becomes to just get stuff down. when writing non-fiction i end up doing a half dozen drafts and the same for literary translations, so i am guessing that fiction will be the same. well, if it is going to be any good anyway...

of course i haven't written a word yet so who knows. i plan to start tonight.

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 31 October 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

Ummester, do you write straight through or...?

Usually, yes, I write straight through. Most times I a a vague idea of how it is going to end and see if the characters end up in the same place I want them to. I worry that if plots are too rigid, then the characters aren't free to evolve within it.

However, I think it depends what kind of story it is. If the plot is complicated or designed to head towards a massive twist, then the characters aren't as free to move.

I notice one of your favorite books is LOTRs - I always thought that its ending was slapped on, that Tolkien had the idea to end the story with Frodo and Sam's deaths (because that is the mindset the war he was fantasizing put him in) but he was too depressed by it when he got there so he invented a way to save them.

I have never written something like I am writing at the moment before (an embellishment on non-fiction that is going to grow into a fictional what if from that) and I have no idea how it ends ATM. Makes me worried about the ending but I am sure that, as I evolve the characters, they will find it for me.

If I wrote the psychologist interviewing Satan thing, the plot would have been more at the forefront. It was going to be a story like Sixth Sense, or Dragonfly where the twist ending was vaguely advertised to the reader on the way to it, so that, when the reader arrived, it felt natural, logical and not at all deus ex machina.

Books I have read about writing generally suggest that the characters should be fleshed out separately (like in a spreadsheet as I mentioned earlier) and that the skeleton of a plot should also be present but never too confining so that the characters have a chance to be themselves within it.

So, if you were writing the first LOTRs, you would have a massive stats sheet for the myriad of characters in it and a plot outline that went something like: (forgive my spelling on all the names) Bilbo has a party and Gandalf works out ring is the big one - Gandalf convinces Frodo to take ring away from Shire - Gandalf vs Sauroman - Rivendale (form fellowship) - Moria (Gandalf's death) - Fellowship breaks. Things like Borimir's turn to the dark side would be defined in his character stats and not by the plot skeleton but the author would probably have a fair idea to bring it into play near the end, likewise for things like Sam not giving up on Frodo, Legolas and Gimli forming a friendship in spite of their distrust and so on.

[ummester]

BTW - I don't know how to update the number of words I've written or load any of the text in. I take it the text can't be loaded til the 25th? But I see you have added how many words you've written Max?

[Max Carnage]

Just type the number into the little box under your name on the top rhs when you're logged in. If you can log in.

Validation is for when you're finished.

[urchin]

ummester, on 01 November 2010 - 01:01 AM, said:

I notice one of your favorite books is LOTRs - I always thought that its ending was slapped on, that Tolkien had the idea to end the story with Frodo and Sam's deaths (because that is the mindset the war he was fantasizing put him in) but he was too depressed by it when he got there so he invented a way to save them.

Really? I interpreted that as showing how they change over the course of the texts--returning home but not able to return home. I am probably a little odd, though, as my favorite parts of that series are the opening and closing chapters (based in the shire).

[ummester]

urchin, on 01 November 2010 - 01:44 AM, said:

Really? I interpreted that as showing how they change over the course of the texts--returning home but not able to return home. I am probably a little odd, though, as my favorite parts of that series are the opening and closing chapters (based in the shire).

I honestly remember the films more than the books - the books are so long ago for me now that they are like the myth being forgotten thing with the ring. The shire is nice though, Tolkien's little utopia, shoeless, with much love of nature, food and weed smoking. So you could be right, what the hobbits saw made them unable to be fully comfortable in utopia when they went back, innocence lost and all that.

Still, I always thought Frodo and Sam dying on Mt doom, after they accomplished their goal, was a more fitting end. Wars hell, kind of thing. Then again, it is a fantasy.

Gollum is, without a doubt, my favorite character from both book and film.

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 01 November 2010 - 01:23 AM, said:

Just type the number into the little box under your name on the top rhs when you're logged in. If you can log in.

Validation is for when you're finished.

I can't, it says - NaNoWriMo has yet to begin. Still got 41 mins left or something.

[urchin]

ummester, on 01 November 2010 - 05:22 AM, said:

I can't, it says - NaNoWriMo has yet to begin. Still got 41 mins left or something.

perhaps you didn't set your time zone correctly? my clock is ticking away already and i haven't written a thing... sigh.

[Max Carnage]

Bastard. Ummester takes the lead.

What's worse, I've sliced my right thumb open. Amazing what they put inside there...

[ummester]

urchin, on 01 November 2010 - 06:23 AM, said:

perhaps you didn't set your time zone correctly? my clock is ticking away already and i haven't written a thing... sigh.

That's it - cheers

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 01 November 2010 - 07:48 AM, said:

Bastard. Ummester takes the lead.

What's worse, I've sliced my right thumb open. Amazing what they put inside there...

I stayed up late last night and kind of skipped work today. shhh. I won't normally get that much out.

[urchin]

what in the world made me think that this would not be that difficult... ugh. it's day 1 and I was practically sweating by the end of my daily allowance. we'll see how things proceed tomorrow. perhaps it would be easier if i had a plan but somehow i think not....

[Max Carnage]

Onya, urchin. You're doing fine.

Mine's been fun, but I'm still annoyed by all the 'clangy' bits. Awkward descriptive phrases, wooden movements, cliche. Basically just bad writing.

I'm still under (over?) par but am pausing to enjoy a cognac for... Uh, inspiration. Or celebration.

[urchin]

Max Carnage, on 01 November 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

Onya, urchin. You're doing fine.

Mine's been fun, but I'm still annoyed by all the 'clangy' bits. Awkward descriptive phrases, wooden movements, cliche. Basically just bad writing.

nah, not bad writing--just a first draft... that's how i justify my terrible prose. but probably not best to spend heaps of time polishing passages that might get cut out in the end anyway... (again, my justification for crap prose).

one thing i think is important--that i suck at--is creating a voice for the key characters and the narrator. that, i think, really does have to be in place from the start. but it is painfully painful. its been ages since i did any fiction writing, though--the pain is a bit fun, really. in small doses.

[ummester]

Max Carnage, on 01 November 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

I'm still under (over?) par but am pausing to enjoy a cognac for... Uh, inspiration. Or celebration.

You're both doing well - but I usually save the booze til the end. Otherwise, what are you going to rely on to finish the thing:) It helps ease the pain of killing your babies (characters).

[Max Carnage]

Day 1 goal achieved. I'm halfway through ch1 and my main character and his support find themselves in a stupid situation of their own creation. They're desperate not to get caught trespassing - I hope this will naturally become a point of contrast later on, putting perspective to something that at the time seemed the worst possible outcome...

Off to get my reward - an hour with Fallout: New Vegas.

Did either of you see the drongo from QLD who claims to have written 23,000 words today? That smells like a pile of bullsh*t to me. Part of me would love to claim that I've written a trillion words...