[zaph]

tor, on 05 December 2010 - 09:21 AM, said:

His "rape" charges are actually consensual sex but _without_ a condom!

how do good law abiding citizens every have children in Sweden?

[tor]

zaph, on 07 December 2010 - 09:40 PM, said:

how do good law abiding citizens every have children in Sweden?

After long and tedious negotiations with public notaries present before, during and after the act to ensure that all specified components of the transaction are carried out in full and in the spirit of the agreement.

[Solomon]

I'm intrigued with the mass media's involvement with Wikileaks.
On one hand they salivate over all the juicy tidbits that are leaked, and which give them short 30 second news bites, and save them a whole lot of work in doing their own research.
They seem to have instant access to the website, because they are the first to report the cables and what they say.

But then on the other hand they have to give air time to all the politicians and authorities who claim that this is treason and social terrorism, and that Julian is the worst criminal that the world has ever seen, and look at all the people's lives he is putting in jeopardy.

The latest about Kevin Rudd are just classic.

Wouldn't it be great to simply live within that ambiguous state of neutrality.
The trouble with the rest of us, is that we aren't allowed such scope of opinion.
We have to place ourselves towards either one end of the scale, or the other.
We are expected to make a decision, as to which end of the moral compass we sit.

[zaph]

tor, on 07 December 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

After long and tedious negotiations with public notaries present before, during and after the act to ensure that all specified components of the transaction are carried out in full and in the spirit of the agreement.

do they seize the child as proceeds of crime if the correct procedures haven't been followed?

[savagegoose]

....

now nominated for Australian of the year

http://www.australia...rg.au/nominate/

[staringclown]

I must say I'm enjoying mightily the whole saga.

Did anyone not know Kevin was a control freak? It was all over the papers. The longer these monkeyshines go on the more ridiculous everyone is beginning to look.

Mark Arbib a US informant? He'd be bowled over in the rush of Australian politicians attempting to insert their tongues up the US bottom. Strangely the only one to emerge so far with any dignity at all has been Kev. At least he had a shot back at the yank hysteria blaming themselves for their troubles. I wouldn't like to get on kevins wrong side. Evans looks like a tool. Gillard looks stupid with her comments on the illegality of the posting of the cables with not a law broken. I've a bit of sympathy for the argument that diplomacy requires some level of secrecy. It's when government actively mislead and hide behind secrecy that I think people start to worry. Governments no longer seem to think it necessary to make hard decisions and sell those decisions to the constituency. I think that's why he (Assange) is popular. People don't like being lied to. 350 down 199650 to go.

[savagegoose]

there is only 1 source of truth, and that is thru the ministry of truth, all others will be expunged.

[staringclown]

savagegoose, on 09 December 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

there is only 1 source of truth, and that is thru the ministry of truth, all others will be expunged.

Ironically, I work for the ministry of truth and you're 100% correct.

[tor]

staringclown, on 09 December 2010 - 12:41 PM, said:

I must say I'm enjoying mightily the whole saga.

Did anyone not know Kevin was a control freak? It was all over the papers. The longer these monkeyshines go on the more ridiculous everyone is beginning to look.

Mark Arbib a US informant? He'd be bowled over in the rush of Australian politicians attempting to insert their tongues up the US bottom. Strangely the only one to emerge so far with any dignity at all has been Kev. At least he had a shot back at the yank hysteria blaming themselves for their troubles. I wouldn't like to get on kevins wrong side. Evans looks like a tool. Gillard looks stupid with her comments on the illegality of the posting of the cables with not a law broken. I've a bit of sympathy for the argument that diplomacy requires some level of secrecy. It's when government actively mislead and hide behind secrecy that I think people start to worry. Governments no longer seem to think it necessary to make hard decisions and sell those decisions to the constituency. I think that's why he (Assange) is popular. People don't like being lied to. 350 down 199650 to go.

Seems to me Kevin has returned to the form from when he was on sunrise about 7 years ago arguing with the tubby politician who's name I have temporarily forgotten, was a regular segment. He used to say things. Like actually state specific ideas and plans rather than waffle. Often time these specific plans did not sound particularly "spin friendly" but usually were fairly reasonable sounding.

Now he comes out and says the sensible things again; "It is the US that cocked up and who really cares?"

Which so far is really the sum of the leaks. The only reason they have become such a hot topic is because politicians are suddenly having their real thoughts and comments revealed and people with public facades which are heavily removed from those thoughts (i.e. hypocrites) stand a chance of being embarrassed. In the usual manner of hypocrites they can't take their public spanking and make things worse.

Assange seems to have a pretty good cult of personality going though and I would be surprised if he wasn't using it to get laid etc. He may have even done some things which are not as ethical as his stated ethics. Pretty much like everyone else in the world would in that situation.

Pretty sure that given the power and influence of those after him even a shining paragon of virtue such as myself could be made out to look dodgy.

If they can't _really_ trash him publicly then I will have to admit he is probably a much better person than me or anyone I know.

[ummester]

savagegoose, on 08 December 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

....

now nominated for Australian of the year

http://www.australia...rg.au/nominate/

What details did you put in for the nominees address?

I want to do it and convicne those I know to also do it, but the address question has been raised?

[savagegoose]

i put gitmo house guantanemo bay

[ummester]

tor, on 09 December 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

If they can't _really_ trash him publicly then I will have to admit he is probably a much better person than me or anyone I know.

Have you read the wiki (not leaks) entry on him?

He's older than me by a single day. The guy has had a fairly interesting (but seemingly truthful) life. Hacking for the purpose of knowledge not disruption, jouranlism for the purpose of facts not spin and all that. He's also earnt hs fair share of awards and nominations.

I like the idea that if something happens to him, the hackers of the world may unite and finally try to hack the planet. I recon that leakers and hackers should currently try to find the political documents behind his charges and arrest. Then, once found, they should spam the net with them.

Its also pretty interesting to consider him a kind of figurehead for the ideological shift taking place between older and younger generations and how much of that shift may be broadcast electronically into the future. I wonder if the powers that be will ever learn to let go of the interwebs and accept them as a place of entirely free thought and uncensored ideas?

[tor]

ummester, on 10 December 2010 - 03:20 AM, said:

Have you read the wiki (not leaks) entry on him?...

Nope, or at least I don't remember reading it.

My point was that even if he has been _almost_ as ethical and pure are driven snow the people he is up against should be able to find the one time he was a hypocrite or something and then smear him.

If _they_ can't then he is, almost by definition, effectively Jesus

If the best they can come up with is that a condom broke they are not doing so well. Although I guess a real jesus would have been able to miracle it back together again.

[staringclown]

tor, on 09 December 2010 - 05:15 PM, said:

Seems to me Kevin has returned to the form from when he was on sunrise about 7 years ago arguing with the tubby politician who's name I have temporarily forgotten, was a regular segment. He used to say things. Like actually state specific ideas and plans rather than waffle. Often time these specific plans did not sound particularly "spin friendly" but usually were fairly reasonable sounding.

Now he comes out and says the sensible things again; "It is the US that cocked up and who really cares?"

Which so far is really the sum of the leaks. The only reason they have become such a hot topic is because politicians are suddenly having their real thoughts and comments revealed and people with public facades which are heavily removed from those thoughts (i.e. hypocrites) stand a chance of being embarrassed. In the usual manner of hypocrites they can't take their public spanking and make things worse.

Assange seems to have a pretty good cult of personality going though and I would be surprised if he wasn't using it to get laid etc. He may have even done some things which are not as ethical as his stated ethics. Pretty much like everyone else in the world would in that situation.

Pretty sure that given the power and influence of those after him even a shining paragon of virtue such as myself could be made out to look dodgy.

If they can't _really_ trash him publicly then I will have to admit he is probably a much better person than me or anyone I know.

Spot on. Anyone can be made out as virtually anything. Given enough spin.

The criminalisation of your opposition is straight out of the dirty tricks playbook. Lee Kwan Yu (ex singapore PM) used libel laws to great effect against his political opponents and journalists for many years. Mahatir learned the trick and had Anwar Ibrahim jailed for sexual misconduct (buggery).

I wouldn't like to be in Assanges shoes.

The problem for Labor with going after Assange is that they have pissed off their latte sipping constituency. They can ill afford to give these votes away to the greens. But they are dumb enough to go through with it.

This post has been edited by staringclown: 10 December 2010 - 11:49 PM

[ummester]

savagegoose, on 10 December 2010 - 02:24 AM, said:

i put gitmo house guantanemo bay

I put no fixed place of abode in QLD, with care of WikiLeaks for his contact email.

Even though I think things are bigger than he expected or planned for ATM, I do believe he is the most influential Australian of 2010 and his pursuit of truth is an ideal worthy of nominating.

[tor]

ummester, on 11 December 2010 - 07:01 AM, said:

Even though I think things are bigger than he expected or planned for ATM, I do believe he is the most influential Australian of 2010 and his pursuit of truth is an ideal worthy of nominating.

Yep. To pick an Australian of the year that did something boring and safe seems a bit antithetical.

To decide that the Australian of the year must be proved right by history I figure is the same.

Australia, in my opinion, defines itself by the outliers. The silly people that do weird sh*t and reject the "she'll be right" attitude. Fairly similar to most countries I guess except Australia has the "she'll be right" and "tall poppy" catchphrases which seem to me to be a faintly self hating self imposed stereotype.

Almost like the stereotypical Australian values are ones that individual Australians reject. I don't think I have met an Australian that claims to believe that "she'll be right" or that espouses knocking down "tall poppies". I have met many that bemoan the propensity of "the rest of Australians" to do so.

[ummester]

tor, on 11 December 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

Yep. To pick an Australian of the year that did something boring and safe seems a bit antithetical.

To decide that the Australian of the year must be proved right by history I figure is the same.

Australia, in my opinion, defines itself by the outliers. The silly people that do weird sh*t and reject the "she'll be right" attitude. Fairly similar to most countries I guess except Australia has the "she'll be right" and "tall poppy" catchphrases which seem to me to be a faintly self hating self imposed stereotype.

Almost like the stereotypical Australian values are ones that individual Australians reject. I don't think I have met an Australian that claims to believe that "she'll be right" or that espouses knocking down "tall poppies". I have met many that bemoan the propensity of "the rest of Australians" to do so.

Agree with the tall poppy thing, most of us are in denial about our own views of other Ozzies. I think the tall poppy syndrome has a mutated downward envy strain (like latham talked about in his political autobiography). The Ozzie middle class is now simultaneously jealous of the upper class for having more and lower class for getting assistance they don't deserve, and in total denial of it.

Also agree with being defined by the outliers and agree with it being something common to most human society.

Disagree with she'll be right - I think most Ozzie's use it as an excuse to embrace apathy without being brave enough to deny it.

[Corydora]

------------------------------------

Now the competition is setting up. The competition may end up being who is willing to release the most controversial material.
http://www.news.com....x-1225969341437

------------------------------------

Governments need to be open and transparent. If they resist, their dirty secrets will be aired for all to see. When the masses of peasants see proof of corruption, government/elites will find their position of power increasingly challenged.

------------------------------------

When the printing press was unleashed in Europe, those in power first welcomed it. But then books and invented newspapers become inexpensive and readily available to the peasants. They peasants were taught to read and in turn questioned authority. The absolute power of monachs and the church ended.

http://www.ideafinde.../printpress.htm

Quote

Gutenberg's invention did not make him rich, but it laid the foundation for the commercial mass production of books. The success of printing meant that books soon became cheaper, and ever wider parts of the population could afford them. More than ever before, it enabled people to follow debates and take part in discussions of matters that concerned them. As a consequence, the printed book also led to more stringent attempts at censorship. This was a sign that it was felt by those in authority to be dangerous and challenging to their position.

The invention of the printing press, in turn, set off a social revolution that is still in progress.

http://karmak.org/ar...y_of_print.html

Quote

Print technology facilitated a communications revolution that reached deep into human modes of thought and social interaction. Print, along with spoken language, writing and electronic media, is thought of as one of the markers of key historical shifts in communication that have attended social and intellectual transformation.

[ummester]

http://www.news.com....x-1225970594165

Dissent in the political ranks re Assange. I recon the more of us who write letters, vote him as Australian of the Year or attend local rallies, the more dissent there will be.

[savagegoose]

austrlaian of the year isnt about who we vote for, its about who the PTB want to present to serfdom as an ideal to aspire to.
its ran by assholes for assholes to tell assholes how to be good australians.

assange has as much chance as idi amin of getting to be next noble peace prize winner.

but its still fun trying and i think true australian is sticking it to the man, not what the knobs in canberra want us to think