[Mr Medved]

I recently had a sudden and unexpected health issue. I staggered into the emergency wing of a private hospital and was informed I had to have same-day surgery. I guess a public hospital was an alternative but I was in no state to pick and choose (and a relo who works in the health sector said one of the public hospitals in my area is bit of a death trap).

Fortunately I had private health insurance (costs $60/month). In total I was liable for $1050 in medical costs for what was (most likely) life-saving surgery. If I did not have health insurance the hospital stay would have cost $6500 and that figure does not include the surgeon or the anaesthetist... so the total would have probably been over $10k.

Lessons from the experience:

- Know the local hospitals in your neighbourhood.
- Health insurance is well worth the cost in most circumstances.
- Have savings for a rainy day.
- Factor in the possibility of a loss of income, even on a temporary basis.

One concern I have reflecting on this experience is that given the indebtedness of the average Australian they will be reliant on the public hospital system more and more in the future. Given this, the aging population, the dropoff in health insurance due to relatively recent tax changes and rising premiums, I think the public hospital system may seriously fail to meet the medical needs of the country. If you want a guaranteed level of medical support in the future you may need to be privately insured.

And praise to medical professionals, they are worth every cent (unlike lawyers, bankers, real estate agents, politicians, overpaid CEOs, etc.).

[Bullshark]

I was thinking about this while jogging this morning, private health insurance was a no-brainer back when we were planning for our first kid a few years back - apart from the costs of the births and a few late nights when one of the kids got a bad cough, so far we have had no serious need for the insurance.

It costs me $250 each month for some reasonable basic cover and while I certainly don't plan on dropping private health insurance I was thinking of bundling the details of all my various insurance needs (car, house, health, life, etc) into one document and mailing this as a Request for Tender to all the general insurance groups and find out how much I can save by putting on them to offer best price for all insurance - good idea?

[tor]

Mr Medved, on 03 December 2010 - 10:44 PM, said:

...One concern I have reflecting on this experience is that given the indebtedness of the average Australian they will be reliant on the public hospital system more and more in the future...

Private health insurance means 1% less tax if you earn more than about 70K. Median income 65K or so? Significant chunk of people are gonna stick with private because it is cheaper / the same as not having it.

[savagegoose]

i had a polyp the size of a golf ball in a nasal cavity.
doc said its nothing to worry about and wait the 6 months till public health had a bed avail. just keep blowing outh the green yucky goo and taking anti biotics.

i asked how long for private health to fix it, and he said i can be done monday. th next working day.

so i called and it was $400 back then, looking back about 2/3 an oz of gold. so i paid up out of savings.


moral is savings is good to .

but a doc did tell me if the operation had gone wrong; i would as a private patient, had to cough up the rest of the costs, like i dunoo a brain fart, or blood clot, or stroke while being operated on.

This post has been edited by savagegoose: 04 December 2010 - 01:21 AM

[Mr Medved]

tor, on 03 December 2010 - 11:34 PM, said:

Private health insurance means 1% less tax if you earn more than about 70K. Median income 65K or so? Significant chunk of people are gonna stick with private because it is cheaper / the same as not having it.

IIRC it is 146k for a couple. What percentage of couples earn above that (and will continue to earn that if the economy dives)?

[tor]

Mr Medved, on 04 December 2010 - 04:05 AM, said:

IIRC it is 146k for a couple. What percentage of couples earn above that (and will continue to earn that if the economy dives)?

A fair few would be close/above, can't remember what the median couple income is but the difference between tax and private health is still pretty small I would guess.

The medicare bonus levy is just propping up private to prevent fixing the public system so I would assume they would put the income threshold appropriate to their goal.

[Bernard L. Madoff]

I've wound back my private to the minimum level to give me max coverage in case of things go bad but with a $500 excess and minimal extras (dental and optcal). I get the rebate (ins in Mrs' name). I put the money saved from max cover in an account to cover the excess etc and net saving. Plus those pricks in Canberra make me pay the levy.

[tor]

Bernard L. Madoff, on 04 December 2010 - 06:35 AM, said:

I've wound back my private to the minimum level to give me max coverage in case of things go bad but with a $500 excess and minimal extras (dental and optcal). I get the rebate (ins in Mrs' name). I put the money saved from max cover in an account to cover the excess etc and net saving. Plus those pricks in Canberra make me pay the levy.

I went for medium level cover but amped my income insurance through the roof. Effectively anything not covered y private medical insurance will be something awesome. In the event of awesome I get an awesome chunk of cash.

There are a couple of flaws in the plan but for most stuff I ought to be fine or dead. If dead girlfriend has a house and a few million to see her through to a new boyfriend.

[urchin]

tor, on 04 December 2010 - 07:16 AM, said:

I went for medium level cover but amped my income insurance through the roof. Effectively anything not covered y private medical insurance will be something awesome. In the event of awesome I get an awesome chunk of cash.

There are a couple of flaws in the plan but for most stuff I ought to be fine or dead. If dead girlfriend has a house and a few million to see her through to a new boyfriend.

hmmm... if you start feeling a bit crook send me her number...

[tor]

urchin, on 04 December 2010 - 07:47 AM, said:

hmmm... if you start feeling a bit crook send me her number...

All things being equal won't your wife find that a tad disconcerting? The girlfriend is not particularly fond of sharing. I blame elitist upbringings

[urchin]

tor, on 04 December 2010 - 08:50 AM, said:

All things being equal won't your wife find that a tad disconcerting? The girlfriend is not particularly fond of sharing. I blame elitist upbringings

disconcerting isn't the word i would choose but yes, i suppose there might be some issues on that end...

[tor]

urchin, on 05 December 2010 - 06:44 AM, said:

disconcerting isn't the word i would choose but yes, i suppose there might be some issues on that end...

From memory your wife is japanese and my girlfriend has access to japanese weapons. You could have a cage match.

Now I don't want to die because I want to watch

On the bright side there are two houses and feudal japanese went in for a little bit of the second wife deal I think.

You could have a cleaning cage match! I would put money on the girlfriend though.

[sydney3000]

I spent a few hours assessing each open registered insurance provider this week. I found comparison difficult. Prices varied by maybe 5% on something that appeared similar. The big funds were easier to assess due to their strong web marketing tactics. You'd really have to read the fine print of each product to "find" the "best" offer.

HIF beats them all on price but you don't know which coverage cuts you are conceding.

https://www.tai.org....apers/WP105.pdf

http://www.hif.com.a...ax/default.aspx

[Solomon]

I dug up this old thread to have a rant.
Recently my wife broke a tooth off at the gum that required a cap.
Fair enough.
Cost me about $500 for the cap and root canal.
Now the cap has fell out, and the dentists are refusing to re-install it, because of the risk of infection.
So the only alternative is a bridge.
This procedure requires a Maxillofacial Surgeon, a general anaesthetic and a screw embedded into my wife's jaw.
The cost of this procedure is approx $3,080. (Three thousand and eighty dollars) I say approx, because we have no idea how many follow-up visits and medications might be required before completion.

And so my rant.
When we contacted Medibank Private, the total of their reimbursement for the procedure is $350.00.
Now.
We have been members of Medibank Private for over 30 years. I joined in 1978. 2 years after the company formed. My wife joined in 1981 when we got married.
We have been in the top (it used to be called "Blue Ribbon") cover all that time.
My current monthly premium is $471.00.
The reason they give of course is that dental surgery is non-life threatening, and therefore not considered essential surgery.
It will take us 6 - 12 months to save the gap.

The CEO of Medibank Private - George Savvides earns $1.9m per year.
My question is:
Despite making that salary, Do you think he would ever pay for a dental surgical procedure out of his own pocket?
Just wondering.

Now to be fair, I don't totally blame M.P.
They believe that $350 is a reasonable fee for the procedure in question?
Even if they were to reimburse 50%, they are suggesting the procedue should only cost $700.00.
Unfortunately the facial surgeon doesn't agree with them.

We have tried to complain through the normal channels. We get nowhere.
Simply an indian call centre somewhere that says this is an enquiry line.
Thanks for listening guys, to an old guy that just doesn't know how you change the system, and yet thinks the system is unjust. Rant over.

[sydney3000]

If you can't change the system you opt out of the system.

[savagegoose]

sue em , and ask for 30 years of cover fees back so you can pay for the dental out of your own pocket. as the cover is intending you to pay

[Solomon]

sydney3000, on 12 December 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

If you can't change the system you opt out of the system.

Do you mean join the public health system?
Or do you mean opt out of life altogether?
Either has their disadvantages.

I guess what riles me, is that healing like every other natural aspect of life has been hijacked by bean pushers, and demeaned by valuing on the basis of money.
Doctors may assist healing, but they don't create healing.
They simply assist the natural processes, no matter how broken down that natural process may have gotten.
Healing ministry used to be a virtue, and a vocation, once.
It use to come with oaths and promises.
I'm not denigrating the health profession, but asking what percentage of them now see it as their means to make inordinant amounts of money.

I was not responsible for setting the charge for the procedure, but I'm the one who gets victimised because I'm in the middle.
Where is my health insurance company out there fighting for my rights with those doctors who might be wanting to charge exorbitant rates? No where!!
Most of the board of directors of Medibank Private are doctors and lawyers. Not one lay person on the Board. In fact most Boards don't want any blue collar workers anywhere near the decision making process. They aren't educated enough.
So what else can I expect.
Earl Paul McClintock, AO, the Chairman of Directors is on 6 other Boards, one of which is Australian Wealth Management Group.
That augers well for serving my interests.
But that's the point, isn't it.
No one serves anyone but their own interests in this day and age.

[tor]

Solomon, on 12 December 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

...

Insurance will never pay off I figure. The only reason I have private health insurance is because the government forces me too.

When I need medical stuff I groan because of the inherent and obvious gaming of the system.

I hope to hell I don't get treated badly but I save the money in the expectation that I will (doing martial arts really screws you in health and income insurance).

Still, better than having nothing I guess. So long as I am the best fighter I won't get hurt right?

[staringclown]

Solomon, on 12 December 2011 - 06:42 AM, said:

Back in 2000 I had a pushbike crash and shattered my left elbow. I got a new shiny titanium one. Although I had private health at the time I told the man that I didn't. I'm not sure if you can opt for public but the operation I required was not elective surgery and I had it the next day. The reason for his was that Ms clown had broken her little finger just previously and she opted to go private for the operation to insert a plate. We ended up with a bill for $2500 for the anaesthetist (which wasn't covered). I paid absolutely bupkiss for the operation or anything for the physio required.

I keep the private going for elective surgery that may be required as one ages. I avoid the levy by being a member but if they drop the rebate I'd have to reevaluate the benefits. Thus far I've never made a claim but I would expect to get stiffed if I did. That's insurance companies in general though.

George Savvides no doubt has a salry package with full comprehensive care for his whole family I would imagine.

[sydney3000]

Solomon, on 12 December 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

Do you mean join the public health system?
Or do you mean opt out of life altogether?
Either has their disadvantages.

No one serves anyone but their own interests in this day and age.

I meant 'going Galt'. Everything has costs and benefits and 'going Galt' comes with its own set of sacrifices. The question really is: "Are you talking about action or are you taking action?"

There are a few supreme beings left in this world.