[staringclown]

I just watched a show on the ABC about about a thallium poisoning epidemic that occurred in sydney in the '50's

I had no idea about this tale. It's extraordinary stuff. 102 poisonings and 18 deaths. Grills, Caroline (1888? - 1960)
Bobby Lulham

I mean this makes Agatha Christie look like a journalist. Does this stuff still go on?

Caroline Grills was found to be stark raving mad and I was tempted to post this on the recipe thread. Her stuff looked good! But why did this stuff happen in the fifties. There was an interesting proposition put forth by the show that images of people doing better than you is vexatious to the spirit. 50's consumer culture pictured the modern, the ideal. This was not the reality for a lot of folk at the time. So my question goes to the value of raising hopes too high (aspirational/capitalism) versus not enough (collectivism/communism) Not so much philosophically but to the point of keeping order. Should you show people what they are missing out on or should expectations be lowered in the interests of a more harmonious society?

[Ruffian]

Short of communism I am not sure you can curb this sort of sentiment.

It is pretty well established (in psychological research literature) that to be 'happier' it is best to be amongst the most well-off in your neighbourhood.

Same income, different neighbours makes a huge difference in perceived success and happiness. So it is better to be living in the best house in the best street regardless of suburb, if you want a happy life. (there goes the real estate theory of buying the worst house in the best suburb.)

We are a competitive species.

Actually, all species are competitive species when you think about it - which has some pretty significant implications for your basic question. It's going to be hard to eradicate a trait that all of evolution has tried to encourage.

Seeing others doing well is vexatious to the spirit.
But most of us cope by trying to do better ourselves, one way or another, not by eliminating the competition.

And you know - some of us are just crackers. Just as 'the poor are always with us'(Matthew 26:11), so are the psychopaths (don't think there is a biblical quote for that one, though). It's possible the woman was plain crackers and political philosophising had nothing to do with it.

As to whether it still happens, just go see the movie 'Snowtown'. No thallium but lots of grim deaths linked to disadvantaged lives, and it's based on a true story that played out not that far from here.

Actually, no don't go see the movie, it sounds pretty crap. But the point is still valid.

[Max Carnage]

"Recipe for Murder" on ABC iView if anybody is looking.
Thanks for the heads-up. I hadn't heard of it either.

[staringclown]

Ruffian, on 27 May 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

Short of communism I am not sure you can curb this sort of sentiment.

It is pretty well established (in psychological research literature) that to be 'happier' it is best to be amongst the most well-off in your neighbourhood.

Same income, different neighbours makes a huge difference in perceived success and happiness. So it is better to be living in the best house in the best street regardless of suburb, if you want a happy life. (there goes the real estate theory of buying the worst house in the best suburb.)

I'm going to move to Charnwood and live like a king!

(Charnwood is the Canberra equivalent of what I last heard Elizabeth was to Adelaide)

Just being facetious - I know what you mean. But I'd happily live in the worst house in the best suburb because I'm a snob and I like reading the paper and sipping latte in a cafe that doesn't have drive bys. They wouldn't like me in Charnwood.

Quote

We are a competitive species.

Actually, all species are competitive species when you think about it - which has some pretty significant implications for your basic question. It's going to be hard to eradicate a trait that all of evolution has tried to encourage.

Yes you can't fight evolution. Aspiration is unstoppable.

I had a thought bubble this morning that aspiration isn't the problem. It's when the aspiration cannot be satisfied that the problems start. One thing you have to nip in the bud is vested interests setting up the system for themselves. We do that reasonably well here in comparison to the rest of the world. Long may it continue.

I had another thought bubble that if you reset the bar when peoples children reached the age of 18 (ie you took away all of the monetary assistance that the children could receive from their parents) and they could only derive income from what they themselves had achieved then that would harness the competitiveness of the species and maximise the efficiency of this trait for the betterment of all. The parents money gets put back into education system. No person could set up an hegemony. They offspring could run for leadership on their own merits. A real meritocracy. Of course this also wouldn't work as the second evolutionary objective is to advantage your offsprings success as much as possible. There would be cheating galore.

Quote

Seeing others doing well is vexatious to the spirit.
But most of us cope by trying to do better ourselves, one way or another, not by eliminating the competition

And you know - some of us are just crackers. Just as 'the poor are always with us'(Matthew 26:11), so are the psychopaths (don't think there is a biblical quote for that one, though). It's possible the woman was plain crackers and political philosophising had nothing to do with it.

Yes she's mad, it was more the number of copycat killings due to the ease of obtaining the poison. Divorce was scandalous at this time. I have a theory that desperation to get out of bad relationships, with few alternatives might have prompted a number of the deaths. Just speculating though.

I think the biblical quote you are looking for is Matthew 5:5 "“Blessed are the meek psychopaths, for they shall inherit the earth

Quote

As to whether it still happens, just go see the movie 'Snowtown'. No thallium but lots of grim deaths linked to disadvantaged lives, and it's based on a true story that played out not that far from here.

Actually, no don't go see the movie, it sounds pretty crap. But the point is still valid.

I saw "Henry - Portrait of a serial killer" and that ended my serial killer movie career. My imagination and my experience is vivid enough. Saw pirates of the caribbean today and that was good.