[tor]

Whilst wandering around Japan someone decided to nick off with my visa card number and buy some junk in Europe. So a bit tedious, had to cancel the card and get refunds.

Now, a coupe of months later the new card has been nicked off with. Same thing, cancel card get refunds. pfft.

Anyone know of any decent products out there which stop this kind of thing? I know citibank was looking at using a card with a company specific suffix (effectively a different number for each company you buy stuff from) a while back but can't see anything recent about that.

I was thinking of getting 25 cards so I can use them individually at different companies so I can work out who the bastard is but that seems a bit tedious.

[AndersB]

Maybe you should cancel your subscription of www.spankmeagainmommy.com ?

[Mr Medved]

ANZ have commercialised one-time and top-up Visa cards, I think under the name of "1 only". The one-time cards can be purchased up to $200, while the top-up cards max out at $1-2k.

Just be aware that PayPal will not accept these cards and charge a $1 fee for the privilege of stiffing you.

Not sure if that is what you meant, I didn't fully understand the OP...

[tor]

AndersB, on 21 September 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

Maybe you should cancel your subscription of www.spankmeagainmommy.com ?

Nah, they have proven to be a reliable and trustworthy source of surrogate beatings.

Mr Medved, on 21 September 2011 - 01:14 AM, said:

ANZ have commercialised one-time and top-up Visa cards, I think under the name of "1 only". The one-time cards can be purchased up to $200, while the top-up cards max out at $1-2k.

Just be aware that PayPal will not accept these cards and charge a $1 fee for the privilege of stiffing you.

Not sure if that is what you meant, I didn't fully understand the OP...

The 1 up sounds like what I am after. Will check it out but a $200 limit sounds low.

[Mr Medved]

tor, on 21 September 2011 - 01:23 AM, said:

The 1 up sounds like what I am after. Will check it out but a $200 limit sounds low.

You can get them through Australia Post. You may also be able to contact the card distributor to get higher amounts though Australia Post have told me $200 is the biggest they stock (unless you get cards with a top-up facility).

[tom]

Mr Medved, on 21 September 2011 - 01:14 AM, said:

Just be aware that PayPal will not accept these cards and charge a $1 fee for the privilege of stiffing you.

Makes sense.

You would happily give the details of that card to any dodgy chinese website. No need for pay pal anymore if we used something like that.

[Easy Tiger]

tor, on 20 September 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

Anyone know of any decent products out there which stop this kind of thing?

[tor]

Easy Tiger, on 21 September 2011 - 06:59 AM, said:

...

Doesn't work so well online and much harder to reverse the transaction.

Pay by credit card and you can dispute stuff, like when a retailer oversells a product and won't take it back because it isn't faulty or wants to put you through hours of hassle. I just say "I am within my legal rights, do it now or I reverse the transaction". This tactic has resulted in things being done my way or, in the case of a reversal, me ending up with the product for free on a few occasions as they rarely bother trying to come and get it back.

The hassle of cancelling a card is way smaller than the hassle of dealing with crappy customer service.

[ummester]

tor, on 20 September 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

Whilst wandering around Japan someone decided to nick off with my visa card number and buy some junk in Europe. So a bit tedious, had to cancel the card and get refunds.

Now, a coupe of months later the new card has been nicked off with. Same thing, cancel card get refunds. pfft.

Anyone know of any decent products out there which stop this kind of thing? I know citibank was looking at using a card with a company specific suffix (effectively a different number for each company you buy stuff from) a while back but can't see anything recent about that.

I was thinking of getting 25 cards so I can use them individually at different companies so I can work out who the bastard is but that seems a bit tedious.

So these cards are for physical transactions and someone is getting the details from them for online stuff? You still have phsyical possesion of the cards, right?


If it is internet theft of card details, the method I have always used is just have a seperate debit account for online transcations, which you move money into as you buy. Never any extra in there for a thief to get. Costs me about $3 per quater to keep an extra debit account open but is kinda full proof.


I guess, for phsyical transactions, you could have 25 accounts and a debit card for each but that is the same level of tediousness as your solution.



You could try a process of elimination. Buy from 1 company for 3 months, if nothing bad happens add 2, then 3. As soon as something bad happens, get a new card and go back to the last company something bad happened at to see if it happens again and just have a second card for all the other companies. I'm sure there is a more efficient mathematical way of tracking down the offending company with less than 25 cards.

[Easy Tiger]

tor, on 21 September 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Doesn't work so well online and much harder to reverse the transaction.

Pay by credit card and you can dispute stuff, like when a retailer oversells a product and won't take it back because it isn't faulty or wants to put you through hours of hassle. I just say "I am within my legal rights, do it now or I reverse the transaction". This tactic has resulted in things being done my way or, in the case of a reversal, me ending up with the product for free on a few occasions as they rarely bother trying to come and get it back.

The hassle of cancelling a card is way smaller than the hassle of dealing with crappy customer service.

I've already been sold on your way of thinking a long time ago. Well, when you first shared it on here.

I was just being a smart artist with that picture

[Turkey]

After being scammed once or twice, I use a company called Entropay when dealing with potentially dodgy (no, not pr0n) websites.

You get a virtual visa credit card which you use online in exactly the same way as you use a physical card. I transfer money from my real card to the Entropay card only when I get to the payment confirmation page of the online retailer so scammers have no time to steal anything.

It works very well, the only drawback is the cost - they swipe 4.95% of the money you transfer.

[zaph]

bank with ANZ they have a falcon

[tor]

ummester, on 21 September 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

...a seperate debit account for online transcations...

...You could try a process of elimination....

Turkey, on 21 September 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

...I use a company called Entropay...

Sounds like ummester has the same technique for cheaper (and is probably what I will end up doing based on what I have found so far from the banks).

The process of elimination was one I suggested to the bank but they said sometime people hold on to the stolen numbers for a year and a half. I offered my services to do some data mining to find the dodgy people mostly because I am a shameless whore and I would like a chance to go through that kind of data

I am guessing that under the current system the banks have no financial reason to stop the fraud so they don't even bother trying. I can understand their stance - it would be a game of whack a mole.

zaph, on 21 September 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

bank with ANZ they have a falcon

hehehehe

[Turkey]

tor, on 21 September 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:

Sounds like ummester has the same technique for cheaper (and is probably what I will end up doing based on what I have found so far from the banks).

Yes, it's a good idea. Entropay works well but I always felt a little violated by the cost.

Quote

The process of elimination was one I suggested to the bank but they said sometime people hold on to the stolen numbers for a year and a half. I offered my services to do some data mining to find the dodgy people mostly because I am a shameless whore and I would like a chance to go through that kind of data

I am guessing that under the current system the banks have no financial reason to stop the fraud so they don't even bother trying. I can understand their stance - it would be a game of whack a mole.

Yes, I'm sure they could hunt almost all of them down if they wanted and it's simply a cost issue e.g. see the FBI arresting that hacker group recently that thought they were invincible.

I think two very simple to implement checks would go a long way to blocking the unsophisticated scammers (probably most of them).

1. The credit card company usually verifies your billing address. Why not the shipping address? It ought to set off a few alarm bells if I live in Australia, order something from the US and ship it to Russia. There could be an additional password if the shipping address is not your registered home address. Once you have validated the shipping address, it could be stored and automatically validated in future.

2. Offer an opt-in service to not allow transactions at physical merchants in various countries known to be full of scammers unless you authorise it with the bank before you leave. It disturbs me somewhat that I could go to Nigeria and use my Westpac card successfully without any communication with the bank in advance.

[Mr Medved]

Turkey - interestingly I used the "1 only" card (no delivery was required) and put in an address of a country that may not be considered "reputable" and the transaction was declined. When I put in an Australian address it went through without a hitch.

On Westpac, I think they already do have a system in place which picks up irregular transactions. You may also be able to lock an account to Australia, as I always inform them when I travel OS so my card doesn't get blocked.

[tor]

zaph, on 21 September 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

bank with ANZ they have a falcon

Oh interesting. St George have the Falcon fraud management system as well. Just got a mail from them.

[zaph]

tor, on 22 September 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

Oh interesting. St George have the Falcon fraud management system as well. Just got a mail from them.

so did i. funny think is i don't have an account with them.

[Mr Medved]

tor, on 22 September 2011 - 07:35 AM, said:

Oh interesting. St George have the Falcon fraud management system as well. Just got a mail from them.

FWIW Westpac bought St George and is merely a brand for Westpac these days. The branches in Victoria have been renamed to Bank of Melbourne. I was previously a customer of Bank of Melbourne but that was bought by Westpac over a decade ago.

Wait until they swallow just a little bit more...

[tor]

Mr Medved, on 22 September 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

FWIW Westpac bought St George and is merely a brand for Westpac these days. The branches in Victoria have been renamed to Bank of Melbourne. I was previously a customer of Bank of Melbourne but that was bought by Westpac over a decade ago.

Wait until they swallow just a little bit more...

Yeah I realise that, I didn't realise Westpac were using the falcon system, as Zaph was saying, that was a part of the ANZ advertising.

I guess someone wrote a system that worked and everyone is using it. Or maybe it is done by Visa.

[zaph]

tor, on 22 September 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yeah I realise that, I didn't realise Westpac were using the falcon system, as Zaph was saying, that was a part of the ANZ advertising.

I guess someone wrote a system that worked and everyone is using it. Or maybe it is done by Visa.

i didn't know it was a system. i thought it was just advertising fluff.