[AndersB]

The observation was made on another thread that English enables almost unlimited ways of stating one thing but mean another. This seems to be reflected in corporate and political spin, which has been so common about asset bubbles in recent years.

If you find good examples of blatant BS about any subject, perhaps it could be entertaining to post it in this thread.

Although some of you seem to think I regularly engage in linguistic cant, let me start off this thread by giving you an example of insincere language, to an extent which I think is only possible in English.


RE: Reference for Nighon Eucelace

It is with great pleasure I provide this character reference for Mr Nighon Eucelace.

Mr Eucelace has been employed by our firm a long time now - almost 4 months. Our initial impression of Mr Eucelace as being an extraordinary man proved to be highly accurate. He has many hidden talents, which no doubt have the potential to greatly impact any employer.

Mr Eucelace quickly managed to dramatically increase team cohesiveness. We have never seen an employee so profoundly mobilise others into a common view. Some of this unity was in our joint appraisal of Mr Eucelace, and in particular his amazing ability to make other team members feel highly valuable and productive.

To illustrate another example of Mr Eucelace's influence; our company has for a long time tried to move production from Mr Eucelace's team to our larger facilities across town, which has been strongly resisted by our workers for several years. After Mr Eucelace joined the team, there has been a total alignment of team goals and company objectives. Nearly all have now voluntarily made the transfer.

On a social dimension, Mr Eucelace has advanced culinary skills and his reheating of leftovers at lunch time always created a buzz around the office. Nobody has yet been able to pinpoint his secret ingredients, but our OH&S representative suggested that they were S&S inspired esoterica for people with advanced acquired tastes.

In conclusion, whilst Mr Eucelace still holds a position with our company, I can wholeheartedly say that everyone in our company wish him a rapid advancement in his career to his next role in the industry.

Yours Sincerely,
Hugo Boss
Executive Director - Paperclip Sorting

This post has been edited by AndersB: 03 October 2011 - 12:09 AM

[zaph]

AndersB, on 03 October 2011 - 12:08 AM, said:

The observation was made on another thread that English enables almost unlimited ways of stating one thing but mean another. This seems to be reflected in corporate and political spin, which has been so common about asset bubbles in recent years.

If you find good examples of blatant BS about any subject, perhaps it could be entertaining to post it in this thread.

Although some of you seem to think I regularly engage in linguistic cant, let me start off this thread by giving you an example of insincere language, to an extent which I think is only possible in English.


RE: Reference for Nighon Eucelace

It is with great pleasure I provide this character reference for Mr Nighon Eucelace.

Mr Eucelace has been employed by our firm a long time now - almost 4 months. Our initial impression of Mr Eucelace as being an extraordinary man proved to be highly accurate. He has many hidden talents, which no doubt have the potential to greatly impact any employer.

Mr Eucelace quickly managed to dramatically increase team cohesiveness. We have never seen an employee so profoundly mobilise others into a common view. Some of this unity was in our joint appraisal of Mr Eucelace, and in particular his amazing ability to make other team members feel highly valuable and productive.

To illustrate another example of Mr Eucelace's influence; our company has for a long time tried to move production from Mr Eucelace's team to our larger facilities across town, which has been strongly resisted by our workers for several years. After Mr Eucelace joined the team, there has been a total alignment of team goals and company objectives. Nearly all have now voluntarily made the transfer.

On a social dimension, Mr Eucelace has advanced culinary skills and his reheating of leftovers at lunch time always created a buzz around the office. Nobody has yet been able to pinpoint his secret ingredients, but our OH&S representative suggested that they were S&S inspired esoterica for people with advanced acquired tastes.

In conclusion, whilst Mr Eucelace still holds a position with our company, I can wholeheartedly say that everyone in our company wish him a rapid advancement in his career to his next role in the industry.

Yours Sincerely,
Hugo Boss
Executive Director - Paperclip Sorting

I think my workplace may have employed Mr Eucelace on this glowing recommendation. in fact I think he is 2ic.

we used to have an annual 'appraisal' but due to PCness it has been replaced with a 'review'; the main objective is to move to the next point in the pay scale. basically, if you manage to turn up to work more than 50% of the time and don't vomit on clients too often you get the tick.

I used to have a fortnightly 'supervision' meeting with my boss. the new boss prefers to call it a 'catch up'. don't worry I've filed a irrelevance¹ against my new boss and have union backing for it to be returned to supervision.

1 - i'm lobying for a grievance to now be called an irrelevance

[Solomon]

Language is fascinating.

[Solomon]

In particular - double entendre

Quote

Examples of Double Entendres:

1. The ladies of the Walnut Street Mission have discarded clothes. They invite you to come and inspect them.

2. It pays to remember your social obligations. If you don't go to other people's funerals, they won't come to yours.

3. Traffic Sign: Slow Children Crossing.

4. Druggist's Sign: We Dispense with Accuracy.

5. Police authorities are finding the solution of murders more and more difficult because the victims are unwilling to cooperate with the police.

6. Testimonial from an insurance firm: My husband and I took out a home insurance policy with your company. In less than a month our house accidentally burned down. I consider it a blessing.

7. I was thrown from my car as it left the road. I was later found in a ditch by some stray cows.

8. Prostitutes appeal to Pope.

9. Public Service Announcement: Our X-ray unit will give you an examination for tuberculosis and other diseases which you will receive free of charge.

10. Come to us for unwanted pregnancies.

11. Lost: Samsonite Briefcase with Eyeglasses

12. I cannot get sick pay. I have six children. Can you tell me why?

13. Church Announcement: What is hell? Come to church next Sunday and listen to our new minister!

See what I mean.

[AndersB]

Solomon, on 03 October 2011 - 01:08 AM, said:

In particular - double entendre

See what I mean.

Language is fascinating. We seem to think of it as a tool for communication, but it seems to be much more than that.

Language appears to also define who we are and our micro-culture of family identity. My family in Sweden are spread out and speak with different dialects and it is funny how each of the dialects almost bring with them the values and attitudes of the people in the region. I also notice these days how different I am as a person while speaking Swedish over there, as compared to my Australian identity over here.

The mechanics of speech is also a mystery. Most fluent speakers do not think about every single word they are about to utter in a sentence. It seems they only have an intuitive intent for what they want to say, and then the words stream automatically. So it seems the use of language is partly a sub-conscious process, which strengthens the argument that it is linked to our core identity.

This process mystery also applies to writing. In contrast to speaking, however, writing leaves a record that can be examined. Writing therefore provides an opportunity of self-discovery, especially when you write about something that is not work related.

I frequently find that what I write on this forum is crap, or very clumsily expressed, in addition to all the grammatical errors and typos. But the great thing with writing in a forum is that at least you can face the reality of what is in you. You can find out how you think and how you express it. So I encourage all lurkers to join in and write crap with me. It will be good for you!

Perhaps the economic and cultural dominance of the Anglo-sphere in modern times have been due to the immense versatility of English? I have to profess that I love the English language. It is a pity that the humanities and arts subjects are held in such low regard in modern education. Who knows? Maybe the weakening of social strength in our communities is related to our neglect of the art of language?

This post has been edited by AndersB: 03 October 2011 - 02:45 AM

[ummester]

Solomon, on 03 October 2011 - 01:03 AM, said:

Language is fascinating.

I've never seen that one before - frickin hilarious:)

GORN!


As for Mr Eucelace (the hot potatoe in disguise) those kind of staff members that can make others feel better about themselves are sometimes invaluable. So long as they are somewhat self aware. I'd wager there are more deluded MR Eucelace's in the federal PS than anywhere else.

[Easy Tiger]

[Solomon]

AndersB, on 03 October 2011 - 02:40 AM, said:

I frequently find that what I write on this forum is crap, or very clumsily expressed, in addition to all the grammatical errors and typos. But the great thing with writing in a forum is that at least you can face the reality of what is in you. You can find out how you think and how you express it. So I encourage all lurkers to join in and write crap with me. It will be good for you!

You sure we aren't related Anders.
That's exactly what happens to me.

I too encourage others to have a go.
Tor might rip into you for a few weeks, but hey! Its all in the interests of a better world.

Someone far more intelligent than I once wrote:
"To know the heart of God, is to know what's on the mind of every single human being on the planet, at this moment."
Impossible I know, but it would be interesting nonetheless.

[staringclown]

AndersB, on 03 October 2011 - 02:40 AM, said:

Language is fascinating. We seem to think of it as a tool for communication, but it seems to be much more than that.

It is fascinating - the right words in the right order have the ability to take you anywhere you want to go. Jobs, fame and fortune at your feet.

Quote

Language appears to also define who we are and our micro-culture of family identity. My family in Sweden are spread out and speak with different dialects and it is funny how each of the dialects almost bring with them the values and attitudes of the people in the region. I also notice these days how different I am as a person while speaking Swedish over there, as compared to my Australian identity over here.

The mechanics of speech is also a mystery. Most fluent speakers do not think about every single word they are about to utter in a sentence. It seems they only have an intuitive intent for what they want to say, and then the words stream automatically. So it seems the use of language is partly a sub-conscious process, which strengthens the argument that it is linked to our core identity.

IT is a cracker for jargon. I think jargon develops to support the conveyance of complex ideas quickly. It is also used to weed out those that understand less about the subject.
Unfortunately a lot of jargon is used to exclude and for bluff. I always enjoy asking someone using jargon that doesn't understand it what it means to explain. You can usually tell they don't understand fairly easily by how fast they try to skim over the topic. It's probably a bit mean but I can't seem to help it. It's important to ask when you don't understand a jargon term. I know if I don't get it half of the meeting doesn't.

Quote

This process mystery also applies to writing. In contrast to speaking, however, writing leaves a record that can be examined. Writing therefore provides an opportunity of self-discovery, especially when you write about something that is not work related.

I frequently find that what I write on this forum is crap, or very clumsily expressed, in addition to all the grammatical errors and typos. But the great thing with writing in a forum is that at least you can face the reality of what is in you. You can find out how you think and how you express it. So I encourage all lurkers to join in and write crap with me. It will be good for you!

I've noticed that about your posts. Just kidding. Your contributions are far more lucid than my own.

I think that forum posting is half toastmasters and half therapy. After that "women in combat thread" my career in politics is over. Except for being a backroom faceless man.

I seldom post an argument to which I'm 100% committed. I just don't have that level of certainty. Maybe I should attach a weighting to my bullsh*t.

Quote

Perhaps the economic and cultural dominance of the Anglo-sphere in modern times have been due to the immense versatility of English? I have to profess that I love the English language. It is a pity that the humanities and arts subjects are held in such low regard in modern education. Who knows? Maybe the weakening of social strength in our communities is related to our neglect of the art of language?

I've always thought that the dominance of english was a hangover form the industrial revolution and the empire. I'm not sure how many words the average person needs. The social strength of our communities is affected by of lot of factors. Most recently aspirational Australia. I'm not convinced that vocabulary can help. I think it's more a matter of saying the words you have in the right order. The change that that would require is enormous.

[AndersB]

Solomon, on 03 October 2011 - 05:38 AM, said:

You sure we aren't related Anders.
That's exactly what happens to me.

I too encourage others to have a go.
Tor might rip into you for a few weeks, but hey! Its all in the interests of a better world.

Maybe we are related in mindset. It seems we belong to the forum group of oldie has-beens (or never-was, in my case)

Don't worry about tor. He's bite is worse than his bark, but he doesn't have evil intent.

most of the times.

Quote

Someone far more intelligent than I once wrote:
"To know the heart of God, is to know what's on the mind of every single human being on the planet, at this moment."
Impossible I know, but it would be interesting nonetheless.

That's profound. Although I'm not sure how the guy that coined that phrase completely knew the heart of God. It seems all sorts of things are ascribed to God. Still, the quote is pithy and cute.

[AndersB]

staringclown, on 03 October 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

It is fascinating - the right words in the right order have the ability to take you anywhere you want to go. Jobs, fame and fortune at your feet.

And maybe even the heart of a fair maiden. Maybe that's why men engage in verbal puffery?

Quote

IT is a cracker for jargon. I think jargon develops to support the conveyance of complex ideas quickly. It is also used to weed out those that understand less about the subject.
Unfortunately a lot of jargon is used to exclude and for bluff. I always enjoy asking someone using jargon that doesn't understand it what it means to explain. You can usually tell they don't understand fairly easily by how fast they try to skim over the topic. It's probably a bit mean but I can't seem to help it. It's important to ask when you don't understand a jargon term. I know if I don't get it half of the meeting doesn't.

Yeah, I've noticed those guys too. Knowing a bit more than you let on and asking "stupid questions" is a lot of fun when the greasy guys pitch their jargon.

Quote

I've noticed that about your posts. Just kidding. Your contributions are far more lucid than my own.

Thank you. Have you been drinking?

Quote

I think that forum posting is half toastmasters and half therapy. After that "women in combat thread" my career in politics is over. Except for being a backroom faceless man.

I seldom post an argument to which I'm 100% committed. I just don't have that level of certainty. Maybe I should attach a weighting to my bullsh*t.

Nah, don't be so hard on yourself. I didn't see any of your comments being too controversial. I'm sure you would be a better politician than Gillard & Swan.

Quote

I've always thought that the dominance of english was a hangover form the industrial revolution and the empire. I'm not sure how many words the average person needs. The social strength of our communities is affected by of lot of factors. Most recently aspirational Australia. I'm not convinced that vocabulary can help. I think it's more a matter of saying the words you have in the right order. The change that that would require is enormous.

The right order is very important. Especially when using expletives. It doesn't have the desired effect if you exlaim "where are my shoes f*cking?"

[Mr Medved]

Solomon, on 03 October 2011 - 01:08 AM, said:

In particular - double entendre

The peasants are revolting!

[staringclown]

AndersB, on 03 October 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

And maybe even the heart of a fair maiden. Maybe that's why men engage in verbal puffery?

Nah, I only engage in verbal puffery cos I'm a wanker.

Quote

Thank you. Have you been drinking?

Only in the strictest moderation.

Quote

Nah, don't be so hard on yourself. I didn't see any of your comments being too controversial. I'm sure you would be a better politician than Gillard & Swan.

Don't you damn me with faint praise!

Quote

The right order is very important. Especially when using expletives. It doesn't have the desired effect if you exlaim "where are my shoes f*cking?"

I see your point.

This post has been edited by staringclown: 03 October 2011 - 11:43 AM

[ummester]

AndersB, on 03 October 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

The right order is very important. Especially when using expletives. It doesn't have the desired effect if you exlaim "where are my shoes f*cking?"

Although 'where my shoes are f*cking' does have an effect:)

I know an ethnic guy at work who actually says things like 'where are my shoes f*cking' and thinks he has it right:)

I've never liked jargon or overly complicated language. I think most things can be described plainly and simply - unless you are dleiberately trying to mislead.

One thing I noticed when I was abroad is the Aussie way of abbreviating everything.

Patterson Family Delicatessen and General Store in the UK, becomes Pattersons General Store in the US and Patto's Deli in Australia. Makes me wonder why more Aussies don't go 'where're me f*cked shoes?' Although many do.

[Easy Tiger]

ummester, on 03 October 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

One thing I noticed when I was abroad is the Aussie way of abbreviating everything.

Patterson Family Delicatessen and General Store in the UK, becomes Pattersons General Store in the US and Patto's Deli in Australia.

Umm, in Queensland it’d be known as the shops or maybe the Deli if you are in the posh area (note singular) of Queensland

[AndersB]

Why are Anglo people so passionate about housing?

This is a question I have pondered about for a while. Although having a house is regarded as a nice thing in Germanic countries, most people are happy to rent an apartment in Germany, Switzerland, and the Scandinavian countries.

Maybe it is because of the visceral link between the identity of a 'husband' and 'house'. According to dictionary.com the etymology of 'husband' is:

Quote

Origin:
before 1000; Middle English husband ( e ), Old English hūsbonda master of the house < Old Norse hūsbōndi, equivalent to hūs house + bōndi ( bō-, variant of bū- dwell ( see boor) + -nd present participle suffix + -i inflectional ending)

We still have the word 'husbond' in Swedish, but it is a very old term that stopped being in use in the 1800's. The word 'bonde' means farmer, so 'husbond' almost means 'keeper of the farm house.'

In contrast, the Germanic languages use the generic terms of 'man' and 'woman' for husband and wife. In German it is 'Mann' and 'Frau', in Swedish it is 'man' and 'fru' (or 'hustru' - related to house again!). Even in French it is 'mari' and 'femme'.

So perhaps the passion for houses in Anglo countries is somehow linked to the masculine identity of being a husband?

This post has been edited by AndersB: 18 October 2011 - 01:48 AM

[staringclown]

Are you tired of being labelled a 'doomsayer' just because you think global meltdown is imminent? We need a word that can act as a counterfoil.

As luck would have it I have such a word.

Pollyanna

Quote

Pol·ly·an·na   [pol-ee-an-uh]
noun
1. an excessively or blindly optimistic person.

Usage:
Pollyanna says "Hark at chicken little over here!"

Doomsayer says "f*ck off pollyanna!

[Carly]

I am often amused by the slick insults dished out by people who have learned how to use words. Christopher Joye must spend a bit of time tinkering with his words: Make sure the veil is thin, and don't credit your audience with the intelligence to think for themselves.

Who knows? He might have taken a course or two in how to write a certain way from offering proposals to government etc. How to write something that means another thing entirely. Writing can be learned. The truth of the matter is that words are just symbols representing feelings/experiences. We are very clever with our use of words, but a lot of the time, it's what someone doesn't say that says so much more.

I find that rebuttal arguments against Joye lack clarity most of the time. And they don't go for the throat. The posters/writers/bloggers know what they want to say, but lack the ability to hone in on the topic and flesh out all the falsehoods. I've noticed Joye will focus on a particular argument and post details to back that up, without acknowledging other factors. He streamlines, and in so doing, gives the illusion that his argument is valid.

Clarity makes a reader feel smart. You don't even see the words, but the message.

The mark of a great writer is that you don't notice the words, but are swept away by the story. Now, others are analyzing the data, the words and see through the veil.

Writing is a form of manipulation and art. A great writer can make a reader feel a certain way. Tense, happy, sad, panicked. The writer just has to figure out what they want to say, what the reader wants and then give it to him/her. It's very simple once you know how to do it. A writer can disguise themselves with clarity. This is because if something is clear, then it is easily understood...anyone can read it and agree because it makes sense to them.

Politicians manipulate while they speak. Yet, these words are also backed up by body language, facial expressions, and our experience of them as leaders, so it's easier to see through them.

[savagegoose]

might i suggest,

" 'ken shoes? "