[AndersB]

Is there a mad scramble to gather physical bullion bars together because of audit activity at the GLD Exchange Traded Fund?

http://news.goldseek.../1255630435.php

Quote

By: Rob Kirby

Earlier this week, I wrote about possible “incongruities” in the gold bar registry of GLD. Specifically, here is what has happened to the GLD bar list which is published each Friday at approximately 4:30 pm EST. An alert reader I communicate with [who shall remain anonymous] has been documenting the length of the published GLD bar list:

- on Friday, Sept. 25 – the list was 1,381 pages long
- on Friday, Oct. 2 – the list was 208 pages long
- on Friday, Oct. 9 – the list was 195 pages long
- then, on Wednesday, Oct. 14 – after questions were being raised about the strange machinations with the bar list in chat rooms on the internet – the list was back up to 855 pages long

Something TRULY stinks here. No explanation has been offered for the DRAMATIC swings in this list. Where gold is concerned nothing happens by accident.
...
To Summarize:

- GLD gold bullion inventory is principally held in London
- I’ve already written about some large [allocated] physical transactions that were settled last week in London under VERY strange circumstances indicative of a shortage of physical gold bullion for good delivery.
- At the same time, significant irregularities appeared in the GLD bullion bar list

Conclusion:

- is the correlated timing of these unusual events a coincidence??? Could GLD inventory have been utilized to effect these physical settlements, which in turn, would have required the “sanitization” or doctoring of the GLD bar list to avoid MANY obvious, easily detectable, duplications of bar numbers?

I discussed these irregularities with a very informed source [the same one who informed me of specific [allocated] trades settled last week] and the reply I received was as follows:

“What can I tell you that you don't already know?

They are all scrambling big time since a number of large interests have demanded audits. Independent auditors are NOW descending onto the various vaults to verify, validate and certify.

They can move this as many times in circles as they like to try to fool people.

In an Asian depository they’ve found “Good Delivery” bricks that had been gutted and filled with tungsten.

Soon, there will be xxxx hitting the fan all over place.”
...

[itching]

AndersB, on 16 October 2009 - 12:25 PM, said:

This news is a bit difficult to assess. Perhaps when gold investment is mainstream it is time to sell out?

http://www.news.com....2-31037,00.html

I was in Angas and Robertson earlier today (big book store - incase you dont have them interstate) and I was walking past the finance section and noticed Peter Schiff's book, so I stopped and picked it up and leafed through it. This kinda held me up in that section of the store and I took note of the books on the shelves, anyway while standing there I remembered this quote(above), although not who made it, from this forum.

Lots of books
a- about how to become a property milllionaire
b- about how to invest in stocks
c- covering managing your own super
d- one was "best stocks to buy in 2008" which was kinda funny
e- with Kochie's picture on them
But not one about gold. Maybe that is a good way to know its gone mainstream??

Unrelated here's an article on the precious from Marc Faber claiming it will never go below $1000 again

http://www.bloomberg...id=az6qQ8ZuXg9M

[wulfgar]

Quote

Gold won’t fall below $1,000 an ounce again after rising 27 percent this year to a record as central banks print money to help fund budget deficits, said Marc Faber, publisher of the Gloom, Boom & Doom report.

That's funny a couple of weeks ago I saw a quote from him predicting a rally in the USD and gold price under 900?

My own opinion is that we'll never see sub 900USD gold again and may true as he now states 1000USD as well. Faber could be another one who doesn't understand the monetary implications of gold and perceives it more as commodity.

I'm of the view that gold will spend the majority of next year climbing to 1500USD or more, before it flattens out again for a lengthy season.

While the FED continues to run near zero prime rates, gold will continue to move up. The USD is measured not only by the banknote, but by the vast number of US treasuries being created. These can be used as currency at the brokerage level.

The growth in the quantity of US treasuries has been over 13% per annum in the decade, and now has accelerated in anything. The USD will be the wheelchair case on the world exchanges in a few years. A world reserve currency in name only.

[Bernard L. Madoff]

http://jessescrossro...rt-updated.html

Chart:
http://4.bp.blogspot...oldlongterm.PNG

[Haydos]

wulfgar, on 15 October 2009 - 07:45 PM, said:

We are at the beginning of the "Grand Depression". You ain't seen nuttin yet!

Couldn't agree more. Wait until we see governments rolling back their attempts to prop up the system. It can't go on forever. I have been expanding my silver collection of late and with the aussie dollar riding so high will get a little of that yellow stuff now. Even AK was spruiking it tonight.

[savagegoose]

theres a big doifference , back in 1930 the money was backed by gold, ie when people demanded payment they took gold. now money is backed by ink and plastic, when people demand payment , they get more pretty colored plastic.

there is a big diff between how a great depression runs when money is backed by gold and backed by ink and plastic.

we wont follow the GD1 into the GD2 exactly the same because things are so different.

exactly how will it pan out? i dont know i aint a uni educated economist without a clue. im stock standard guy without a clue.
but as long as money can be created out of nothing and people are wiling to take it as payment, we wont have a GD2

[Bernard L. Madoff]

LMAO when I saw this (hey the Aussie gov is buying MBS'):

[Bernard L. Madoff]

Mauritius:

http://www.zerohedge...-imf-1115-ounce

[wulfgar]

savagegoose, on 17 November 2009 - 11:03 AM, said:

theres a big doifference , back in 1930 the money was backed by gold, ie when people demanded payment they took gold. now money is backed by ink and plastic, when people demand payment , they get more pretty colored plastic.

there is a big diff between how a great depression runs when money is backed by gold and backed by ink and plastic.

we wont follow the GD1 into the GD2 exactly the same because things are so different.

exactly how will it pan out? i dont know i aint a uni educated economist without a clue. im stock standard guy without a clue.
but as long as money can be created out of nothing and people are wiling to take it as payment, we wont have a GD2

Histories a little out Goose. Even in the 19th century most money was paper. In the British Empire the BOE bank note was the standard and had unofficially become the national banknote long before the 19th century. In the 1830's it was declared legal tender. Not even the gold reserves existed to fully cover the issue and even most of that was leased to jewelers for a profit. However as long as convertibility existed the value of paper money didn't become too inflated. Britain actually left the gold standard during the Napoleonic wars and gold coins sold way over their face value. Wellington's troops refused to fight on the continent unless they were paid in gold, this actually forced the Treasury to mint some gold coin during the war. Of course prices became inflated, mill workmen where getting 15 shillings a week during the war. Prior to the war they got less than 10 shillings a week, and after the war when gold convertibility was restored with wages falling to 5 shillings a week.
Silver coin never seemed to present a difficulty and was always available. The common man rarely saw a gold coin and if he did often kept it as a lucky piece.

The US left the gold standard in 1861 and began printing the notorious Greenback. Any actual gold coin sold for many times it's face, 1869 saw it reach 8x face value. If you watch Eastwards "fistful of dollars", you'll find an echo of this. His price for a "hit" was $100 in gold or $500 in paper. The US withdrew currency during the 1870's and re pegged to gold in 1879, with the gold issue that year being still a very common coin today.

Most nations began running down their gold reserves during the armaments race lead up to WW1. Australia actually had some of the largest gold reserves in the world at the time, but these got spent during the war.
After the war gold coin was really only available in France and the US. The US typically backed it's greenbacks with 40% gold reserves. Actually the demand for gold coin by US citizens doubled through out the 1920's. Typically if you asked for gold coin the banks gave you the run around and told you to come back tomorrow.
Even though gold coin was made illegal, people hung onto them even when the price was almost doubled for it. You can tell that because there's still heaps of pre confiscation coins that can be purchased at gold content prices. Perversely it's often American silver dollars in top nick from the i9th century that can outsell an equivalent gold coin.

The middle class getting gold coinage kept that at home in a jar in preference to paper money. Basically gold coin was the hoarders choice and perversely gold coinage like sovereigns from the 1880's onwards are easy to find today.

[wulfgar]

Tinpusher, on 17 November 2009 - 01:13 PM, said:

LMAO when I saw this (hey the Aussie gov is buying MBS'):

Bullshit man! Cavemen know what real value is.....rocks!

My link

Actually cavemen generally had larger brains than modern men, he was a product of the days when you were either the quick or the dead.

They are a bit slow these days!

[savagegoose]

i was really commenting on the " we will repeat the great depression " mantra that some people spout. I feel we wont repeat it as now money is now backed by What eva the fuck gov says its backed by, not gold.
sure there have been incidents in history, that you have faithfully listed here, that didnt have gold backed money.
but im just focussing on the "now will follow great depression" comparison.


but hey you're the expert, ill leave research to you. i cant be arsed looking anything up

[wulfgar]

savagegoose, on 20 November 2009 - 02:10 PM, said:

i was really commenting on the " we will repeat the great depression " mantra that some people spout. I feel we wont repeat it as now money is now backed by What eva the fuck gov says its backed by, not gold.
sure there have been incidents in history, that you have faithfully listed here, that didnt have gold backed money.
but im just focussing on the "now will follow great depression" comparison.


but hey you're the expert, ill leave research to you. i cant be arsed looking anything up

I wouldn't agree with that one. Money is abstract form of receipt that governs trade, distribution of goods and services and the redistribution. It is the latter which is the real capital. You supply goods or services to the general market and expect to receive in return.

That system can break down no matter what it is backed by. A fiat system aims to redistribute from the prudent to the impudent. With the end result that the more stupid the policy the better it seems to work. Until finally one day the ugly nature of it's reality overflows from the sewers and drowns it.

[wulfgar]

I'm pretty skeptical as to how gold could be prevented from becoming the world reserve. For the last few generations black gold supplanted it, the world has always been on a commodity standard.

For a commodity to function as money then there must a surplus. Peak oil has killed the surplus.

Gold on the other hand is in perpetual surplus because it can be recycled almost indefinitely.

The long term validity of gold is easily demonstrated. Take Australia for example.

In 1901 there was the equivalent of $17 per capita in Australia in circulation. That was equal in value to two ounces.

Today there is $2,360 in circulation per capita. Divide by two = $1,180

So even after all this time the currency in circulation buys a similar amount of gold.

For the past 108 years AUD in circulation per capita has increased in quantity 4.65% per annum on average. One wonders about the value of nominal interest rates which get taxed while the principle amount loses purchase power.

Governments love the public debt or printing swipey card so much and only the restraint of gold can put this in order.

If we look at the last decade for the AUD. Then there was $1370 in circulation per capita exactly ten years ago. So the AUD has increased in quantity at 5.6% per capita. The average bank bill rate for the last decade has been 5.52% and of course you pay tax on the supposed gain. Which as we can see is no gain at all.

10 years ago gold was $450 an ounce, so currency per capita bought you 3 ounces. Much more than the historical average, but this was at the very height of the Fed short on gold. What are they desperate to hide? The fact that gold is money and a form of money safe from government rapacity.

Gold isn't a great money spinner, but certainly it is an excellent safe haven for preserving value come Hell or high water. It is the money that can't have its value diluted until the alchemists finally succeed.

If we go back to 1980 at the time of the Central Bank long on gold. There was $345 in circulation per capita and at the height of the last gold craze AUD per capita could only buy half an ounce. I expect we might see something similar in 2013.

Certainly gold is in no bubble, it is really only at fair valuation and that won't stop it becoming more popular.

[Bernard L. Madoff]

Gold and the SP500

http://jessescrossro...500-charts.html

[cobran20]

Time to drool!

Gold Video

[cobran20]

Gold and the $US

[recession we had to have]

From todays Age

My link

<h1 class="cN-headingPage prepend-5 span-11 last">Miners: We're running out of gold</h1> November 25, 2009 - 1:49PM Gold production will continue to fall, despite a brief boost in 2009 and soaring prices, as deposits are exhausted and new discoveries remain elusive, say miners.

In terms of production, "2009 is the outlier as far as the trend," Omar Jabara, spokesman for US-based Newmont Mining, the second-largest gold producer in the world, told AFP.

Overall, "it's a fact that gold production from mines has been in decline since 2001 and has gone roughly from 85 million ounces to about 75 million ounces a year," said Vincent Borg, spokesman for number one producer Barrick Gold.

"It sort of goes down about one million ounces every year and our forecast is that it will continue to decline despite the higher price" for gold nowadays, he said.

Almost everywhere, mineral deposits are being exhausted and new deposits are not being found fast enough to replace them, these experts explain.

South Africa, which was once at the vanguard of world production, saw a 9.3-percent drop in production year-over-year in the second quarter, according to its Chamber of Mines.

Globally, "it's just that the assets are not there anymore," Tonya Todd, a spokeswoman for Goldcorp, Canada's second biggest gold mining firm.

"Just because gold reached a new high today doesn't mean we can send a message to our 26 mines saying produce as much gold as you can today because they are already," said Borg.

"It's not like a water tap you can turn on and it comes right away."

Barrick and Newmont expect nevertheless to continue increasing production next year by seven percent and five to 10 percent, respectively. But long-term, it's downhill.

Omar Jabara explained that it takes from seven to 10 years to start production of a mine after finding an economically viable gold deposit.

And "no significant new discoveries have been found in recent years, despite the higher gold prices and despite higher exploration budgets," said Borg.

What is already happening and is likely to continue is that the grade or quality of deposits industry-wide will be "on average lower than deposits discovered in the past," opined Jabara.

The global gold mine production is forecast to rise by 3.7 percent in 2009 to about 2,500 tonnes, but will satisfy only two-thirds of demand, which soared this year amid the global financial crisis to 3,800 tonnes, according to the World Gold Council.

Historically, gold recycling or the sale of central bank stockpiles made up for supply shortages.

But during the latest financial crisis, banks have been buying up gold in large quantities to protect monetary reserves against weakness in the US dollar.

Since the start of November, for example, India's central bank has scooped up 200 tonnes of gold from the International Monetary Fund, at market value for about 6.7 billion dollars.

Amid uncertainty in the stock market, small investors and hedge funds are also coveting gold, driving up demand for the precious metal.

With mine production sloping downwards, an increasing supply of gold must come from existing supplies -- such as coins, bullion or jewelry -- but it will be very limited.

"All the gold ever produced through history amounts to about 165,000 tonnes, which would barely fill two Olympic-size swimming pools," said Jabara.

The price of gold, after reaching new highs over the past year, on Monday hit 1.174 dollars per ounce.

AFP

[Bernard L. Madoff]

A Must read pair of links:

Bank Of America On Gold's Imminent Rise To $1,500
http://www.zerohedge...inent-rise-1500

Negotiating Purchase Of Remaining IMF Gold As Spot Hits $1,177/Oz
http://www.zerohedge...pot-hits-1177oz

[wulfgar]

cobran20, on 25 November 2009 - 10:49 AM, said:

Gold and the $US

The FED better jack up rates at the next meeting on Dec 15.