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Why America and China will clash

#1 User is offline   Silver Surfer 

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 11:58 PM

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Why America and China will clash


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By Gideon Rachman

Published: January 18 2010

Google’s clash with China is about much more than the fate of a single, powerful firm. The company’s decision to pull out of China, unless the government there changes its policies on censorship, is a harbinger of increasingly stormy relations between the US and China.

The reason that the Google case is so significant is because it suggests that the assumptions on which US policy to China have been based since the Tiananmen massacre of 1989 could be plain wrong. The US has accepted – even welcomed – China’s emergence as a giant economic power because American policymakers convinced themselves that economic opening would lead to political liberalisation in China.


If that assumption changes, American policy towards China could change with it. Welcoming the rise of a giant Asian economy that is also turning into a liberal democracy is one thing. Sponsoring the rise of a Leninist one-party state, that is America’s only plausible geopolitical rival, is a different proposition. Combine this political disillusionment with double-digit unemployment in the US that is widely blamed on Chinese currency manipulation, and you have the formula for an anti-China backlash.

Both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush firmly believed that free trade and, in particular, the information age would make political change in China irresistible. On a visit to China in 1998, Mr Clinton proclaimed: “In this global information age, when economic success is built on ideas, personal freedom is essential to the greatness of any nation.” A year later, Mr Bush made a similar point: “Economic freedom creates habits of liberty. And habits of liberty create expectations of democracy ... Trade freely with the Chinese and time is on our side.”

The two presidents were reflecting the conventional wisdom among America’s most influential pundits. Tom Friedman, New York Times columnist and author of best-selling books on globalisation, once proclaimed bluntly: “China’s going to have a free press. Globalisation will drive it.” Robert Wright, one of Mr Clinton’s favourite thinkers, argued that if China chose to block free access to the internet, “the price would be dismal economic failure”.

So far, the facts are refusing to conform to the theory. China has continued to censor new and old media, but this has hardly condemned it to “dismal economic failure”. On the contrary, China is now the world’s second largest economy and its largest exporter, with foreign reserves above $2,000bn. But all this economic growth shows little sign of provoking the political changes anticipated by Bush and Clinton. If anything, the Chinese government seems to be getting more repressive. Liu Xiaobo, a leading Chinese dissident, was recently sentenced to 11 years in prison for his involvement in the Charter 08 movement that advocates democratic reforms.

Google’s decision to confront the Chinese government is an early sign that the Americans are getting fed up with dealing with Chinese authoritarianism. But the biggest pressures are likely to come from politicians rather than businessmen. Google is an unusual company in an unusually politicised industry. If the Googlers do indeed head for the exits in China, they are unlikely to be crushed by a stampede of other multinationals rushing to follow them. To most big companies the country’s market is too large and tempting to ignore. Despite Google, US business is likely to remain the lobby that argues hardest for continuing engagement with China.

The pressures for disengagement will come from labour activists, security hawks and politicians – particularly in Congress. To date, the Obama administration has based its policy firmly on the assumptions that have governed America’s approach to China for a generation. The president’s recent set-piece speech on Asia was a classic statement of the case for US engagement with China – complete with the ritualistic assertion that America welcomes China’s rise. But, after being censored by Chinese television in Shanghai and harangued by a junior Chinese official at the Copenhagen climate talks, Barack Obama may be feeling less warm towards Beijing. An early sign that the White House is hardening its policy could come in the next few months, with an official decision to label China a “currency manipulator”.

Even if the administration itself does not move, the voices calling for tougher policies against China are likely to get louder in Congress. Google’s decision to highlight the dangers of cyberattack from China will play to growing American security fears about China. The development of Chinese missile systems that threaten US naval dominance in the Pacific are also causing concern in Washington. Impending US arms sales to Taiwan are already provoking a dispute.

Meanwhile, protectionism seems to be becoming intellectually respectable in the US in ways that should worry China.

A trade war between America and China is hardly to be welcomed. It could tip the world back into recession and inject dangerous new tensions into international politics. If it happens, both sides will share the blame. The US has been almost wilfully naive about the connections between free trade and democracy. The Chinese have been provocative over currency and human rights. If they want to head off a damaging clash with America, changes in policy would be well advised.


http://www.ft.com/cm...144feabdc0.html

This post has been edited by Silver Surfer: 19 January 2010 - 12:00 AM

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#2 User is offline   Sacamento 

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:01 AM

"Robert Wright, one of Mr Clinton’s favourite thinkers, argued that if China chose to block free access to the internet, “the price would be dismal economic failure”.

Lol. How dumb is that. Derrr, cheap labour and about a billion and half people good at maths and shit?

It's probably better for them because there'd be nothing interesting to read on the net so they wouldn't waste as much time.
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#3 User is offline   savagegoose 

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 05:36 AM

hahaha only a moron would chose democracy over authoritarian rule. sure our form of gov gives a different tribe of thieving scammers a chance every 4 years., but why bother when u can be ruling thieving asshole for life? if you expect the advanced in tec to do anything but entrench tight gov control you are insane, just look at uk? cameras everywhere, body scanners in air ports? and we are the free people !!!!

so what top do? buy american? lol buy australian? i sure would like an aussie flat sceen HD TV but im not sure i want to pay $30k for one. or $200 for a pair of shoes when theyre $50 from china. so if everyone stopped shoping chines, i guess our hare market dives and its sell sell sell all our resource stocks.
anyhow whos up for a little shop aussie only? nowe that xmas is over i guess i can

lol shit chewing gum i been chewing is made in china!
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#4 User is offline   Sean 

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 06:55 AM

The last TAFE shoe-making course in Sydney recently ceased to be offered -- no demand. All the manufacturing has gone off-shore.
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#5 User is offline   Bernard L. Madoff 

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:05 AM

There are alternatives you know in the shoe making business...

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"Hoover blanket" (old newspaper used as blanketing) and "Hoover flag" (an empty pocket turned inside out). "Hoover leather" was cardboard used to line a shoe with the sole worn through. A "Hoover wagon" was an automobile with horses tied to it because the owner could not afford fuel;


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Hooverville
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#6 User is offline   Bernard L. Madoff 

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 06:02 AM

Interesting times we live in.

http://www.abc.net.a...?section=justin

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China lashes out over US-Taiwan arms deal


Posted 6 hours 9 minutes ago

China has lashed out with a raft of reprisals after the United States announced a $US6.4 billion arms package for Taiwan, escalating the biggest Sino-US crisis yet under President Barack Obama.

Berating the one-year-old Obama administration for "crude interference" in its affairs, China says it is suspending military and security contacts with the United States and imposing sanctions on US firms involved in the Taiwan deal.

The furious riposte came a day after the Pentagon approved the sale of Patriot missiles, Black Hawk helicopters, mine-hunting ships and communications equipment for Taiwan's F-16 fleet of fighter jets.

Chinese defence ministry spokesman Huang Xueping says the reprisals reflect the "severe harm" posed by the deal with Taiwan, which Beijing says is a part of its territory and must return to the mainland fold.

In Washington, officials say the White House is committed to Taiwan's defence and denied it is picking a fight.

But Chinese vice foreign minister He Yafei made an urgent official protest to the US ambassador in Beijing, Jon Huntsman, Chinese officials said.

In a statement delivered to Mr Huntsman, he urged Washington to cancel the deal, which he said constituted "crude interference in China's internal affairs that seriously endangers China's national security and damages China's peaceful reunification".

Taiwanese president Ma Ying-jeou, who has overseen a marked warming in trade and political relations with China, says Beijing has nothing to fear from the arms sale.

"It will let Taiwan feel more confident and secure so we can have more interactions with China," Mr Ma said, according to Taiwan's Central News Agency.

China's response underscored a rapid degeneration in relations with the US following recent strains over trade, climate change and Google's threat to quit China.

Observers say China could yet go further by rejecting new UN sanctions on Iran. Hours before the announcement on Taiwan, the United States urged Beijing to help curb Iran's nuclear program.

"Cooperation between China and the US on key international and regional issues will also inevitably be affected," Mr Huang said.

Mr Huang says the US package "runs counter" to commitments on cooperation outlined by the two governments when Mr Obama visited China in November.

The last US arms package for Taiwan, announced under Mr Obama's predecessor George W Bush in October 2008, also led China to cut off military relations with the US temporarily.

But this time the sanctions were more biting and analysts say they reflect China's increased clout at a time when its economy looks set to overhaul Japan's and its military budget is surging year by year.

China refuses to rule out the use of force to reacquire Taiwan and has hundreds of missiles deployed against the self-governing island of 23 million people, which split from the mainland in 1949.

-AFP


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#7 User is offline   Charles Bukowski 

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:11 PM

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World breaking news
US, China lock horns over Taiwan arms sale
  • From correspondents in Washington
  • From: AFP
  • February 01, 2010 6:59AM
CHINA and the United States were locked in an escalating row over US arms sales to Taiwan, with Washington overnight rebuffing Chinese protests and insisting the deal promotes stability in the Taiwan Strait.

The Pentagon Friday sparked the latest challenge to China-US relations under President Barack Obama when it approved the 6.4-billion-dollar sale of Patriot missiles, Black Hawk helicopters, mine-hunting ships and other weaponry.

China responded furiously with a raft of reprisals, saying it would suspend military and security contacts with Washington and impose sanctions on US firms involved in the deal.

Beijing warned of "severe harm" to relations.

The Pentagon expressed "regret" over the bitter response, which reflected a rapid souring of relations with the United States amid strains over trade, climate change and China's Internet controls.

US State Department spokeswoman Laura Tischler said the sale "contributes to maintaining security and stability across the Taiwan Strait", a view echoed by Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou.

"It will let Taiwan feel more confident and secure so we can have more interactions with China," Mr Ma, who has overseen a historic warming in relations with China, was quoted as saying by Taiwan's Central News Agency.

But China's Taiwan Affairs Office, which handles relations with the island, rejected that view as "totally untenable."

"The planned US arms sale sends the wrong signal to Taiwan and will only encourage the arrogance of Taiwan independence forces and hinder the peaceful development of cross-strait ties," an anonymous official with the office was quoted as saying by the state-run Xinhua news agency.

In an official diplomatic protest, China said the row would endanger cooperation with the United States on "key international and regional issues."

It did not elaborate, but the comment comes as Washington seeks Beijing's help curbing the nuclear programs of Iran and China's ally North Korea.

The United States is calling for tougher action, including possibly more sanctions, on Iran. China imports significant quantities of Iranian oil and has sizeable investments there.

Jing-dong Yuan, a non-proliferation expert at the Monterey Institute of International Studies in California, said the dispute means Washington "should forget about" Chinese support for more sanctions against Tehran.

"Even before the arms sale, China was reluctant to agree to additional sanctions because of its significant economic stakes in that country," he said.

Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said she expected Beijing to stay engaged on Iran but there was a risk China could overplay its hand.

"There is a sense in China that their leverage over the United States and their position in the world is growing, and in that sense there might be a little bit of overreaching," she said.

Taiwan split from the mainland at the end of China's civil war in 1949, but Beijing views the island of 23 million as part of its territory that must be reabsorbed. It has hundreds of missiles targeted against the island.

China's state-run media was mostly mum on the rift overnight but Xinhua said in a commentary the world needs "healthy, stable and developing China-US ties," saying the two countries have many "common interests."

Analysts noted the reaction could have been even sharper had the arms package included the new fighter jets that Taiwan seeks - it included communications equipment for Taiwan's F-16 fleet, but no new planes.

But Jason Yuan, Taiwan's de facto ambassador to Washington, said the United States could still potentially add F-16s.

China temporarily cut off military contact with Washington when the arms deal was first proposed under the George W. Bush administration in 2008.

But it has gone further this time, reflecting its growing clout with its economy set to overtake Japan's and its military budget surging.

The European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton declined to be drawn on the row.

Ms Ashton told Sky News she was "not getting involved in what the United States chooses to do with Taiwan or not" and "not getting involved in discussions about supporting what China says or does not say."


http://www.news.com....i-1225825299373

If the poo hits that spinning fellah on the ceiling, whose side are we on?
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#8 User is offline   savagegoose 

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 12:38 AM

at least tthis time americans will know what end of a riffle is the dangerous end, when they blunder into a fight with china. ie we wont see a repeat of korea.
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#9 User is offline   Bernard L. Madoff 

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 03:59 AM

View Poststrangejuice, on 31 January 2010 - 08:11 PM, said:


If the poo hits that spinning fellah on the ceiling, whose side are we on?


Nothing like shipping millions of tonnes of Iron Ore and getting to see the finished product.

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#10 User is offline   Bernard L. Madoff 

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 11:09 AM

The Peoples Liberation Army now dabbling in brinkmanship economics...

http://www.zerohedge...ng-treasuries-a

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Senior Chinese Military Officers Join Iran In Delivering "Punch" To U.S., Propose Selling Treasuries As Arms Sales Punishment
And you were worried about Iran. China's People Liberation Army has come out and openly said that the nuclear option, i.e., selling US Treasuries, is now on the table and should be exercised as "punishment" for U.S.' arms sales to Taiwan. China undoubtedly realizes that this is a prime example of sado-masochism as the resultant plunge in Treasuries that would follow would hurt the US certainly, but also have a "mild to quite mild" impact on China's $700 (and likely much greater) UST holdings. Game theory 101 just got interesting.


Also,

http://www.zerohedge...ies-must-be-div

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The Dumping Begins: Chinese Reserve Managers Notified That Any Non-USG Guaranteed Securities Must Be Divested
It appears that this time China's posturing is for real. Following up on our earlier post that Chinese military officials want to "punish" America by selling Treasuries, Asia Times Online is reporting that an explicit directive by the Chinese government has notified reserve managers to sell all risky US assets, including asset backed and corporates, and just hold on to explicitly guaranteed Treasuries and Agency debt. And from following TIC data we know that China's enthusiasm for MBS/Agencies over the past year has been matched solely by that of one Bill Gross.

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